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[raflaunches]

Whilst I would not trust any government as far as I could throw a stone I do believe that the human race has landed on the moon.
The simple fact that radar from any nation on Earth could have traced the Apollo craft to the moon, if they had faked it the Russians or Chinese would have announced it and I m sure that our (British) radar could have known if they had faked it.
Has anyone watched Apollo 18 because I think that would be reason enough not to go there! LOL

[tassie48]

if they did land on the moon how come no one has spotted or seen the landing site surely some one would have photographed it by now

[RAAArtyGunner]

Raflaunches,

And therein is the background for the conspiracy.

The kettle doesn't want to call the pot/kettle  black and vice versa.

Knowing it can't happen, you can then crow if I didn't do it, (land on the moon), prove me wrong   

[Artistmike]

if they did land on the moon how come no one has spotted or seen the landing site surely some one would have photographed it by now

Well yes,  there have been numerous photos taken of the landing site actually.....  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14813043  ....

[raflaunches]

Hi raaartygunner

Agree with what you say but the conspiracy would have to be that huge that the truth would come out quicker than it has, you can't keep that many people who were involved quiet for long.
Going back to the radar etc, knowing what the Russians (or Soviets as they were called) are like especially against the Americans, they would have had a field day if the Apollo crews had not landed on the moon and they could have proved it with the radar plot. So unless the Russians were in on it too (can't see why they would lie about it and support a country they despised at the time) I would like to believe that we landed on the moon. As I mentioned with Apollo 18 I think the real question is why we have not been back to the moon for 30years, don't tell me money was the key factor in it becasue the shuttle program proved that NASA at the time had plenty.

[malcolmfrary]

don't tell me money was the key factor in it becasue the shuttle program proved that NASA at the time had plenty.

OK,I wont tell you, but it was.  The Shuttle program is where the money and effort went.

[bbdave]

I'm not sure Mythbusters is a scientific resource i mean they did say putting a hole in the side of an airliner at 30000' can't produce devastating decompression  all the air accidents involving this must have got it wrong.

Also isn't it weird all the digital cameras that now exist in the world most people have one it there pocket, no one has a digital image showing bigfoot or the beast of bodmin.

Dave

[RAAArtyGunner]

OK,I wont tell you, but it was.  The Shuttle program is where the money and effort went.

Nevertheless it still beggars the question why they didn't budget/plan to go back at some time.

After all if it's about who dominates the space, then being "on the moon" would be a plus.

[dreadnought72]

Nevertheless it still beggars the question why they didn't budget/plan to go back at some time.

After all if it's about who dominates the space, then being "on the moon" would be a plus.

The end of Apollo boils down to a number of issues:

• Kennedy's promise had been met.
• The public had had enough. US public interest was plummetting in every flight after Apollo 11.
• As the Vietnam War was winding down from '72 onwards, the Apollo "distraction" wasn't seen as politically so necessary.
• It was extremely risky: Apollo 13 had nearly ended in disaster. Further flights would, inevitably, have led to the deaths of US astronauts.
• The technology was absurdly primitive. The 70lb guidance computer was a 2MHz, 16-bit, 2k RAM with 36k of (hand-woven!) ROM. Consider the sort of computers you could have used even teny years later.
• The Russian's ability to ever go to the Moon started to slip after the death of Korolev in '66, and came to a complete halt after the four failed launches of their N1 rocket in '69-'72.

The emphasis following Apollo - "dominating space", as you suggest - moved to less risky Earth observation (= spying) and manned space stations in Low Earth Orbit: something the Russians were extremely good at.

The Shuttle was developed with one of its abilities being able to return satellites from orbit ("whose?", I'm tempted to ask...) and was initially driven by Department of Defence requirements which made it the dangerous and expensive white elephant it was throughout its career. Once stuck in the Shuttle-rut, NASA had to focus on keeping this craft going, at the expense of any manned operations outside LEO, because there was no political will to do otherwise.

And that's why we're stuck here today.

Andy

[RAAArtyGunner]

Dreadnought,

Very interesting, So at the end of the day who, if anyone, "dominates space"?

[HawkEye]

This is one of those things that will go on and on, I personally do not subscribe the moon landing being a hoax or it being real, but with that said, the proponents of the hoax theory bring up very interesting, and very VALID points. Some of these questions have NEVER been adequately explained to any conclusive degree.

This young chap calls himself Jarrah White ( MoonFaker ). He's the best debater on this subject I've seen so far. His arguments and reasoning are thorough. Everything he says is sourced and documented. He has documents on everything, even from the 60's. He performs scientific experiments, when he can, to back up and illustrate his argument.Therefore, he doesn't just make arguments, he SHOWS you the scientific facts and results through experiments right in front of you, either by him, or by others.

If anyone cares to watch here's a link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2dzr_Ojp3s&feature=player_embedded

Or some FAQ's from his site -

http://moonfaker.com/faqs.html

To balance things up a bit here we have a site which allegedly has independent photo's for the Telescopic Tracking of the Apollo Lunar Missions

http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

And of course the Wiki site on the " Hoax" questions and answers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories

Followed by alleged photo's of the landing sites from various country's-

http://www.squidoo.com/apollo-moon-landing-photos-from-space

So fact or fiction - you decide !   

[malcolmfrary]

There have been more recent Lunar missions by countries other than the US which have photographed the bits and pieces left on the Lunar surface from low orbit using better equipment than was available back in the late '60s / early '70s.  I fully expect that the paranoid malcontent self publicizing conspiracy theorists will very shortly be claiming that the governments of India, China and Japan are in on the deal as well.  After all, they (the theorists) do have DVDs to sell.  Personally, I find it easier to believe that it was easier to go to the moon than for any government to keep a secret that size.

[dreadnought72]

Dreadnought,

Very interesting, So at the end of the day who, if anyone, "dominates space"?

JPL!

The robotic successes of the last forty+ years largely stem from them - and the science results have been huge.

Here's humans messing about in LEO, in an environment out to kill us, while - for example - Voyager is still returning useful data, 34 years after launch, and from 120 AU away. (That's over eleven thousand million miles, in old units).

Andy

[dreadnought72]

...the proponents of the hoax theory bring up very interesting, and very VALID points. Some of these questions have NEVER been adequately explained to any conclusive degree.

And the fella you mention has some qualification in film-making, and is requesting Paypal donations to his cause.

Sorry - not good enough. And it does not begin to answer the evidence for landing that I placed in this thread ten months ago.

Andy

[TheLongBuild]

Devils Advocate here..

What if NASA finally owned up and and said "Well actually Yes " We faked it" and the Russians, Chinese and the UK all knew about it..

[HawkEye]

And the fella you mention has some qualification in film-making, and is requesting Paypal donations to his cause.

Andy

I think some qualifications in film making would be quite useful if you're producing video's for youtube, as for the Paypal donations, it is just that, a donation if a person feels that he/she wants to donate ? ( they would be far better off donating to this forum ).


It amazes me that the discussion of this topic is still so widespread throughout the net and there are many amusing and heated arguments going on daily.
Just put "moon landing hoax" ( with quotes ) into Google and select within the past 24 hours / week / month etc. for an enlightening insight .I await the first moon lift to be built so I can check for myself. 

[malcolmfrary]

Devils Advocate here..

What if NASA finally owned up and and said "Well actually Yes " We faked it" and the Russians, Chinese and the UK all knew about it..

Would the US government actually intentionally let another government in on a secret?  That is hard to believe.   
If the UK government said it had been let in on a secret, who would believe that?   
If the UK government had been let in on the secret, how long would it have been before an entrepreneurial senior civil servant leaked it to the tabloids?  Or the French papers?  Realistically.

[sjoormen]

Wouldn't be USSR only too happy and would want everybody to know if USA would failed with mission on the moon?
And if someone beside USA would have information would be USSR.

[Shannon S.]

If NASA had faked the moon landings all those years ago, wouldn't they be worried that someday in the future technology might prove them wrong. Also you might be able to keep one or two or fifty or maybe one hundred people quiet, but I doubt you keep thousand held to a secret. One last thought. With all of the conspiracies theories out there, I don't know of one that has ever been proven.

[HawkEye]

July 21, 2009   

Just out of interest is this the longest running thread on the forum ??


HawkEye

[TheLongBuild]

If NASA had faked the moon landings all those years ago, wouldn't they be worried that someday in the future technology might prove them wrong. Also you might be able to keep one or two or fifty or maybe one hundred people quiet, but I doubt you keep thousand held to a secret.

Probably not.. But then they have managed to keep thousands quite about switching the Olympic to become the Titanic for the insurance scam  

With all of the conspiracies theories out there, I don't know of one that has ever been proven.

The Conspiracsists could argue that to them the theories about there actually being moon landings have never been proved either..

[justboatonic]

Best response to those 'fake' moon landings conspirtors?

70 year old Buzz Aldrin laying out that 40 year old bloke with one punch after he approached Aldrin and said 'Come on, admit it to the world, you never landed on the Moon!'

Convinces me every time I see it!

[F4TCT]

Now i never used to believe they did land, however now i do.

Ive watched the tv programs both confirming and denying the facts.

Mainly i wondered how without the complex computers and such could it be achieved and after speaking to a maths teacher, he said calculation of orbital things and such is actually quite easy.

Few things make me a bit dubious still in the respect of the pictures where the images are on top of the crosses when it should be there other way round. The shadows have been confirmed as correct, and the flag is correct as per mythbusters. Maybe they actually did land but had to jazz the photos up slightly?!?!

The question we should be asking is "did the soviets go to the moon". I mean after all, they built the lander but did they ever use one! They aint stupid people and it was within their limits to achieve in my opinion. They did send a few rovers to the moon under the Lunokhod program and a few probes under the luna program.

Anyone seen this pic -

Its astronaut Pete Conrad from Apollo 12 who visited the Surveyor 3 probe...

[justboatonic]

Now i never used to believe they did land, however now i do.

Ive watched the tv programs both confirming and denying the facts.

Mainly i wondered how without the complex computers and such could it be achieved and after speaking to a maths teacher, he said calculation of orbital things and such is actually quite easy.

Few things make me a bit dubious still in the respect of the pictures where the images are on top of the crosses when it should be there other way round. The shadows have been confirmed as correct, and the flag is correct as per mythbusters. Maybe they actually did land but had to jazz the photos up slightly?!?!

The question we should be asking is "did the soviets go to the moon". I mean after all, they built the lander but did they ever use one! They aint stupid people and it was within their limits to achieve in my opinion. They did send a few rovers to the moon under the Lunokhod program and a few probes under the luna program.

Anyone seen this pic -

Its astronaut Pete Conrad from Apollo 12 who visited the Surveyor 3 probe...

Never ceases to amaze me people use this 'complex computers' as an indication the landings were fake.

Why!? IBM had computers more than capable. They were just huge and housed in large computer rooms. The space craft relied on these for most information and calculations and only needed small on board memory for limited functionality which it prioritised and discarded if not needed.

[sjoormen]

UFO anyone?
I never cared much for stories about UFO,
 yet I watched few documentaries about them, most were rubbish,
this one at least produces some documents about them.
Anyway not the worst I've seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPCKIL7oVw&feature=related