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[Patternmaker]

Why not sell fireworks year-round, make them an acceptable part of our culture to celebrate with fireworks without that factor of doing 'something wrong and getting away with it'

Greg

I consider this is the worst suggestion I have heard so far, depending where you live the situation can be horrendous, I live on a small Island with a population of over 40,000 which has been overdeveloped. As I said my dog is terrified of fireworks as are most pets. I wonder if certain people would be so eager to have fireworks if they lived through the blitz or served there country on active service as I have and seen your mates blown up by a mortar bombs, some of these fireworks pack as much explosive and are just as loud, all they do for me is bring back memories I am trying to forget.

My opinion, Ban them and leave it to public displays.

[Greggy1964]

To respond to the original post about dogs being afraid of fire works, I have two German shepherds.

Each year about a week before bonfire night I desensitise my dogs by putting a CD in my stereo in the house playing fireworks noises.

It starts off quiet and over a few days gets louder and louder.

What happens is that the dogs get used to the additional noise and come bonfire night the stress for them is much reduced.

It just takes a little thinking about and a dash of common sense.

To pick up on what DickyD said about government legislation, I agree with him whole heartedly.

Giving government more and more power over our lives is a very bad thing.

Hitler tried world domination through bombs and terror, we in todays society on the other hand are stupidly GIVING government a path to totalitarian power with our blessing!

Government is not some mythical magical animal that can wave a wand and right wrongs, they are just a body of INDIVIDUAL people.

One man as a sheep is fine and harmless but a whole group of sheep can be down right dangerous!

Where is it going to end?

What happened to common sense and taking responsibility for our own actions?

It has to start from the ground up with parents and their children.

I have been saying for years but, and excuse the swearing but stupid heads breed stupid heads and it will only get worse as time goes on. (Marin, please moderate if unsuitable with my apologise) Moderated, as requested, but why not do it yourself, it only needs a little self control and imagination?

We have to have driving licences and road tax to legislate us and enforce responsibility on us in charge of four wheeled tin missiles but when it comes to babies there is no instruction book what so ever.

Mothers give birth regardless of whether the new parents are capable and responsible to rear young impressionable children.

There is a young lass lives next to me (about 20 years old I think) with her lover/partner and together they have a 3 year old baby boy, when she especially talks to the baby  - it's never less that at the top of her voice and the language is terrible.  

How do you think that little boy is going to grow up with roll models like that? I shudder to think.

They have friends round every Friday night for drinks, they all get plastered and the same old stories are told.

One is where the lads all go out for a beer and a laugh, this means getting wasted and looking for some poor soul the beat up on the way home!

One of them picked on a young lad who happened to be very handy with his fists as he was the typical skinny sort of kid who gets picked upon.

So he decided to take matters into his own hands and take self defense lessons.

The bully ended up with all his front teeth knocked out for his trouble.

But the amazing and absolutely thick moron collected up all his teeth and took them home!

Now you would think he's be straight down to the dentist wouldn't you?

No! not this 'clever' lad!

Out with the super glue and stick them all back in place!

And he's proud of himself - like his crooked and glued in back to front teeth are some kind of battle scar!

I only pray that idiots like these are still in the minority but if nothing is not done . . . . . . . ,

Well I'm thinking of moving to the moon!

How about you?

I'm a lone parent with two teenage daughters, but they are decent kids whom I'm proud of.

But I put in the hard effort and time to teach them right from wrong and to have high moral standards and my parents did me the honour of doing the same.

Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?

Now I'm not advocating government control over child rearing - god forbid!

But somewhere somehow young parents have to have the mental tackle to be able to teach their kids high moral standards and it starts with their parents.

[Peter Fitness]

 

[Greggy1964]

Thank you Mr Moderator

Duly chastised

Its a bit of a hot subject with me due to having to listen to what that poor lil kid next door to me has to put up with

Thin adjoining walls you see!

[gondolier88]

Firerworks...dogs...social degradation...end of the world- only on Mayhem would a sequence of events run so!

Quite agree though- I work in social housing and the standards of self respect of the MAJORITY of unemployed benefit scroungers who expect everything for nothing and complain about everything that they have neither the means or the motivation to do anything about, is disgraceful/scary/enraging/demoralising, take your pick- thats pretty much my working week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank heavens for model boats.

Greg

[Greggy1964]

Hello Greg,

*sigh!* a sad state of affairs.

Your not far from me I notice, I'm in Bridlington

Greg

[gondolier88]

Not too far at all, can't hear the fireworks there though...

From the coast myself, though i'm whitby born myself.

Funny, got a guy at work training with us and he's called Greg, from Scarboro, have we been posted in every coastal town on the East coast...?

Greg

[derekwarner]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe about 1961...a youngster @ school loved science...so the next day after Guy Falk's night collected all of the "penny bungers" that did not explode & saved the wicks

His mates dad was a plumber ...... ...so we found potassium permanganate + sulphur + lead powder & made the HUGEST smoke bombs imaginable

My parents arrived home from their Sunday afternoon drive only to told  No 2 son was in hospital 

In 1961...there were no aersol cans of plastic skin in Wollongong...........but they did drive a few tins down from Sydney

No names mentioned here..... ...but I still have a few scars to prove it..........Derek

[gondolier88]

Magnesium powder, toy cars and home made fuses, thats all i'm saying!!!!!

[Patternmaker]

This topic seems to have gone of the rails; the simple question was your views on fireworks not social degradation.

I have tried the Cd's Greg, the problem hear is you would have to start the process in late September. The only thing that helps my dog is sedation as Richard said you cannot keep a dog sedated for over 2 months.

In our local garden centre they have fireworks on special offer some measured 9” in diameter and 15” long, the instructions where to bury to a depth of 12” and retire to a distance of 35 metres, bomb disposal protective gear was not included, price £50.00 reduced from £70.00

[malcolmfrary]

This year the nuisance seems to have been considerably reduced, probably due to the legislation.  Its just a great pity that we have been reduced to having to legislate for stupidity.  Perhaps if there had been enough police actually patrolling areas the problem enforcing existing existing legislation the problem would never have arisen in the first place.  As it is, they give the appearance of being stashed away somewhere until a report of something having happened, rather than being out there and able to nip it in the bud.
Restriction of the size and time available/age requirements for fireworks has got to be sensible.  This would mean that specialist firework shops would likely go out of business, but remembering the past few years of stupidity that they helped create, I can't find it within me to worry about them.

[steamboatmodel]

We have fireworks on sale in Sweden but they only go on "general" sale nearer the bigger occasions, New Year, Easter, Valborg (Swedish thing) and a couple of others. "Bangers" are supposedly not allowed but they find there way from Denmark. There is an age limit in place (can't remember what it is). I will admit that we do not have the start of the season as early as Bonfire Night but it will be with us soon and we wil be hearing fireworks at night.

The situation in Ontario Canada is very similar, The Firecrackers (Bangers) are not allowed, a few still do show up, regular Fireworks generally go one sale a week or two before Victoria Day (May 24) and again before Canada Day (July 1). There is also an age limit 16 I think.
Regards,
Gerald.

[Greggy1964]

Erm  . . . . . . .


airfix model jets and mini rockets anyone?

We fired them off the sea wall into the sea!

Safety conscious us lads!

[Bartapuss]

If some of our local authorities did not waste money on rubbish which is only of any value to a few invited "artisans" but spent it on something that would benefit 1000's of local taxpayers like a really good "kick ar**" firework display once a year ie Nov 5th or new year, then that would eliminate the need for the public to buy them in the first place.

[Bryan Young]

It's in the nature of the young male to be adventurous and carefree.
In days gone by I would imagine that many of us "oldies" set off fireworks that sort of annoyed the then older generation.
BUT...there is a difference between a basically harmless scallywag and a malicious yob. In my (and many others) younger days we would all look forward to setting off a few "jumping jacks" or bangers near the feet of our elders. Good fun. And it was both meant and taken in fun. Of course there were always the thickos that would tie a banger to a cats tail or something similar. But the culprit(s) were quickly named. No "Community Service" then.....so off to a Borstal they went. Very,very few offended again.
Legislation will not help. But a decent upbringing and a respect for civilised law and order works. So does heavy punishment for those who sell "stuff" to these not so young "kids". We never really needed policemen to be around on Bonfire night..our parents did that job.....but I can still taste the black and burnt spuds that were raw in the middle. Harmless fun, now destroyed. BY.

[sheerline]

How true Bryan, how very true! The liberal minded sowed the 'rod sparing' seed and now society is reaping the whirlwind. Total disregard for the law, a lack of respect for others coupled with a total lack of responsibility has given us a generation who feel totally immune from the standards required of a civilised society. Only now, with an election looming, do we hear all the common sense and promises of building a more responsible generation dripping from the mouths of the politicians. Makes me sick to hear it because they broke our society in so many ways and now they pretend they have all the answers and will fix it. For this yob culture generation it's too little too late in my opinion as the basic instinct for decency has never been instilled in the early days.
  

[Colin Bishop]

have to agree in many ways. We were driving down through Sussex this morning and on the verge of a picturesque country lane somebody had dumped a big pile of old carpets and other rubbish which was of course sodden with rain. They must have gone to some trouble as the spot they had chosen was several miles from any village. In this area there are perfectly good domestic waste disposal facilities which are well run and well used. I find it very difficult indeed to get into the minds of people who do this sort of thing. If they are caught then I think the penalties should be harsh as basically they are sticking two fingers up at the rest of society.

Colin

[sheerline]

I know this is off topic ,but there is always something which baffled me about roadside dumpers. Why oh why do they dump degradeable grass clippings on the verges... in polythene bags?? The ruddy stuff will de-compose and do some good if the bag were emptied, albeit dumped illegally, but in a polythene bag it can't even get back into the ecology.
I was also appalled by a tv programme which showed the filth and mess left behind by 'travellers' in lay-by's. They had set up camp as it were, remained there for a few weeks and left behind scrap, toxic waste, rubble and filth which can only be described as the most basic of human waste. The councils know they are there so why don't they monitor them on a daily basis and dis-allow the deposition of any waste or scrap with the threat of immediately  removing them as soon as it appears. They appear immune from the normal rules which govern the other residents in the area and it sends out completely the wrong message to everyone as they feel singled out to abide by the rules. In my opinion, this kind of thing instills a 'couldn't care less' feeling in residents as they lose respect for the rules which appear to victimise them.
Anyway, sorry for drifting off topic but simply following on from the 'irresponsibility' drift of the conversation.
 

[Colin Bishop]

Intimidation Sheerline.

[dodgy geezer]

... If they are caught then I think the penalties should be harsh as basically they are sticking two fingers up at the rest of society.

The practical problem is that trying to arrest someone like that is difficult. They will be difficult to find, and will have mates who will cause more trouble.

So what happens is that harsh penalties are set in legislation, and then applied, not to the yobs, but to some inoffensive middle-class widow, who has left an old carpet over her lawn to kill the weeds, and who can be relied upon not to retaliate.

[tigertiger]

I don't know if it has been said, but as soon as it was announced that councils would charge for rubbish disposal, fly tipping was inevitable.

Draconian punishments don't work. The problem is a lack of enforcement. With little if any risk of getting caught or any sanctions/fines/punishment, there is no deterrence. IMHO

[Colin Bishop]

I don't think Councils are charging just yet, certainly not around here anyway. Larger items that don't fit into the regular collections can be taken down to the local tip (or amenity recycling centre!) and normally disposed of free of charge although they do take exception to people turning up with trailer loads of rubble. Trade waste is charged for and has been for a long time. Some people are just anti social.

Colin

[Shipmate60]

Colin,
Large items used to be picked up from of charge from your house by the council wagons.
Now you have to break large units up to fit into your car then take down to the dump (sorry Recycling Centre).
Adverts appear regularly through our door for disposal of these items extremely cheaply.
They cant use the Recycling Centres as they are classed as Trade Waste, (which they are), so I wonder where they go?

Bob

[DickyD]

We used to get 3 free collections of large household waste [beds, wardrobes etc] a year.

It now costs £25 per time.

Cheaper to fly tip ?

[Colin Bishop]

I quite agree the service has deteriorated Bob although not to the extent that we are being explicitly charged at the moment. Our Council don't recycle cardboard so I take it down to the local facility every ten days or so as do a lot of other people. Usually I wait until I'm heading in that direction anyway but if i've got a lot of stuff to get rid off such as leaves etc. it's a 5 mile round trip and that costs both me and the planet!

But I do leave my TV on standby, otherwise it doesn't update the programme guide and at 0.17 watt it probably uses less than the central heating timner!

Richard, if it's domestic waste, and you are in a position to fly tip (have vehicle available) it must be just as easy to drop it off at the local amenity tip rather than dump it out in the countryside. At our local centre the nice man will even help you unload it from your vehiclle if you are struggling.

Colin