Topic: Can it print a model boat (Read 6933 times)

RaaArtyGunner · « **on:** July 18, 2011, 06:21:01 am »

Don't know how real/true this is but it will revolutionise model boating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboxMsSz5Aw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Peter Fitness · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2011, 06:30:15 am »

Amazing technology, but they don't say how much it costs.

Peter.

Umi_Ryuzuki · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2011, 06:56:14 am »

Yes, but it would probably sink.
Think of texture like that of a sand candle. Dig a hole in the sand, pour in some wax let it cure voila, sand candle.
This thing injects cement into the "sand bed" and creates the parts. The textures are like 250 to 300 grit sandpaper.

Zcorp printers are like that. There are other printers that print plastics, but the resolutions of most well still stair step curves.
Some of the wax printers for jewelers are pretty good, but consider, that even jewelers do a lot of polishing.

joppyuk · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:47:03 am »

I've seen model railway locomotive bodies produced by a similar method. When I get home tonight I'll try find the details.

brianB6 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:50:16 am »

There was a recent article about printing chocolate into any shape.

Yum Yum, any shape is good enough for me!

I don't suppose it would stand up to water though.

john s 2 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2011, 08:46:15 am »

These technologys are the ones to watch. There in their early days.With more developement and price
reduction parts production will change.The wrench made had more strength than i expected. John.

Fifie · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2011, 09:36:03 am »

I use all the currently available 3D Printing methods
They each have their own merits
Its very much a case of selecting the right process and material for the job in hand
The edge definition on some is poor
The holes on some ain't very good
Some materials are brittle
Yes you could print a model boat, but it would probably have to be in sections because these machines tend to have a small production area
Machine costs vary from £12K to £200,000K
Most bureaus have a minimum cost of £250
Try Shapeways they don't
it's a good site for letting you know what can be done
Fifie

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2011, 09:49:17 am »

While the printer can no doubt do individual parts if they are scanned separately, I have strong doubts about the ability to produce a complete working item with internal threads. I feel that the video has strong elements of Blue Peter - "Here's one I did earlier."

Fifie · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2011, 09:59:44 am »

Malcomfrary

i have watched the video
This is the Z Corp version of 3D printing
It uses a powder which is basically superglued together
Internal threads are not a problem
I used this method for trawler powerblocks but they too brittle for much handling
look at the shapeway site for what can be done

Fifie

MikeA · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:10:05 am »

if it hadnt been questioned weather this was real or not i would have bought it. However it goes to show the development of manufacturing technology. In the long run give it ten years off the shelf products created by these things will be available to the mass market and as result like most advances like these will deem millions of people out of work. Rich people will get richer and poor people will get poorer.

DickyD · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:28:59 am »

Quote from: Mad_Mike on July 18, 2011, 10:10:05 am

if it hadnt been questioned weather this was real or not i would have bought it. However it goes to show the development of manufacturing technology. In the long run give it ten years off the shelf products created by these things will be available to the mass market and as result like most advances like these will deem millions of people out of work. Rich people will get richer and poor people will get poorer.

Are you organising a march on Westminster, Mike ?

MikeA · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:33:13 am »

looks like ill have too

Watchleader · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2011, 05:33:20 pm »

Hi Guys

Can you help me out here. I'm not too sure on the correct spelling.

Is it - Gullable or Gullible? Or something else?

John

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2011, 05:36:09 pm »

Fifie,
I appreciate that, because of the way that the image is imprinted into the medium, that internal details can be produced. My belief wavers at the scanning stage. We dont really have hand held imaging gear that can look at the internals of a lump of steel.
Had the image been taken of a disassembled item, no great problem. With the right CAD jiggery-pokery, it could well be assembled, and subsequently recreated, assembled. I would still go for the Blue Peter option, with added poor continuity. A pity, because the important part of the technology is real enough, and might well be the future, but a dumbed down presentation does not help. It fuels the argument of non-believers, and raises expectation of the majority who still think Star Trek and Harry Potter are both real, and does both at the same time.

steamboatmodel · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2011, 05:47:12 pm »

Check out this site
http://www.makerbot.com/
One of the members of the Toronto Society of model engineers has one and demonstrated it at one of the meetings. I was very impressed with it.
Regards,
Gerald.

joppyuk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2011, 06:06:54 pm »

Further to my message this morning, I've dug out the advert in the 7mm Narrow gauge Assoc. magazine. Website is www.chrisjward.co.uk, they produce a couple of loco bodies (at the moment) at £68 for this scale. According to the text on the site they can produce items from your own CAD file, so it might be worth getting in touch for details of practicality and quotes.

dodgy geezer · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2011, 06:42:41 pm »

Here is the open source Rep Rap Wiki page: http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page

Rep Rap is an attempt to make self-replicating machines available for as little as possible - ideally free. You need a computer, and you may have to buy motors and the control boards, but all the parts are made by other rep-rap machines and are either cheaply or freely available from other people with rep-raps.

The technology is in an early stage, but can probably make things like fittings for a boat, or small hulls....

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:10:37 pm »

Yes it is early days but hopefully it will get better and better... and cheaper!
Same story with 40MHz & 2.4Ghz - NiCad, then Nickel-Metal Hydride, then LiPo.

My first mobile phone....

bobk · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:18:14 pm »

One of the great things with professional CAD is that it is possible to produce a very accurate representation of your design, but with quite a few practical limitations. At the firm I was with we had Pro Engineer at about £20k a seat, and a 3D printer costing almost £100k. The software was brilliant, I wish I had it here now ! They got the 3D printer because some managers could not visualise the full size design revolving on screen in front of them without having a small solid replica to 'fondle'.

Limitations were size, length of time to build up the individual laminations, and the end result tending to be too fragile around detail, plus distinct 'pixel style' steps on any vertical curves.
Great for sub superstructures where you need a constant wall thickness, and an alternative to awkward shaped cast parts providing no too fine bits that will break off with handling. Could be ideal to make masters for soft metal casting I guess ?

Bob

Umi_Ryuzuki · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:54:49 pm »

Quote from: Martin - admin. on July 18, 2011, 07:10:37 pm

Yes it is early days but hopefully it will get better and better... and cheaper!
Same story with 40MHz & 2.4Ghz - NiCad, then Nickel-Metal Hydride, then LiPo.

Yee gads, I think of the technology as already 10 years old... It was that long ago when I first saw samples of a Zcorp machine.
The previous Stereo lithography machines, and the subsquent depsoition machines have all come a long way in that time.
But still no where near affordable.

Six years ago, I had to make a decision between buying a laser cutter or a new car, I went with the car after partnership discussions...
The price tags are not much different today. Especially with these 3d printers.

Bee · « **Reply #20 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:31:13 pm »

I think a version printing wax for lost wax casting with an emphasis in fine resolution at the expence of strength would be helpful, probably been done too.
I recall we were using the laser/resin system for complex chassis models about 1 cu ft size in the mid eighties.

Subculture · « **Reply #21 on:** July 19, 2011, 11:43:06 pm »

You can get Google Sketch-up for nothing, and a free plugin which will convert your 3D files into a compatible file for 3D printing. http://www.cadspan.com/tools

Rerap looks promising, and it's getting better all the the time, but it doesn't match the results of the professional machines, yet.

Umi_Ryuzuki · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:46:13 am »

Well if you are happy with the resolution of the RepRap, or the cupcake printer, then here is a commercial version.

http://pp3dp.com/

But do note the resolution on that little toy car... a lot of clean up work to do there.
By the time I figure out how to draw the part, encode the part, print the part, and clean up the part, ...
I could have probably built half a dozen parts from scratch... Knowing that some of these machines take hours to print, I
could probably build a part in the same amount of time it takes for it to print one.

Also note, this particular machine only has one print head, so there is no support material to alow it to print over hanging pieces.
The model has to be cut and printed in sections to allow a continuous layer build up in any direction.

Bee · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2011, 06:06:38 pm »

Click-online on BBC News 24 has just featured 3 versions of 3D printer. They scanned the presenter's face and then produced a 1 inch high head. This would be fantastic for crew models which are often a bit difficult to find in the right scale and looking reasonable. You could arrange to crew your yacht with your family = much cheaper than actually giving them a sailing holiday.

Umi_Ryuzuki · « **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2011, 07:30:34 pm »

Quote from: Bee on July 19, 2011, 09:31:13 pm

I think a version printing wax for lost wax casting with an emphasis in fine resolution at the expence of strength would be helpful, probably been done too.
I recall we were using the laser/resin system for complex chassis models about 1 cu ft size in the mid eighties.

FX models has a printer/mill, that will create a resolution down to 0.001
Most machines are printing 0.25mm or 0.009.

For small parts and fittings, or figures it would be great, but a whole boat would be too costly.

http://www.fxmodels.com/SST612.shtml

Quote from: FXmodels-Marc

Our machine can grow parts as large as 6"x 6" x 12" which is the max size of our grow area, and of course to any size less than that down to fractions of inches or mm. We have grow resolutions from 10 thousands down to one HALF thousandth. In other words, the part would feel as smooth as glass at the finest resolution. The finished parts can be:

1: moldable in silicone to make resin copies
2: investment cast to make metal pieces...

Our systems use two heads, the first is a deposition head that puts down the plastic material and the second is the head that deposits the wax encasement used to make sure delicate details are not lost to the process as the model grows.
After the plastic and wax layers are deposited, a milling cutter in the machine comes across and levels out the layer to make it perfectly smooth. Then a new layer is started. In this way the system can achieve very fine resolutions. Some of our parts were used to make the Turbine Blade Locks for the new Joint Strike Fighter engine even though we were using it for model parts!
In any case let me know if you need quotes on parts. We are happy to help. We find that resolutions of .001, .0015 are very clean, with .002, or .0025 being typically perfectly fine. You can see the lines at the two thousandths resolution but not feel them. Beyond that resolution you can begin to feel the layers increasingly as the layer resolution is reduced.

For timings, consider that a layer of 2 thousandths resolution takes half as long to grow as a layer of 1 thousandth. Stands to reason... double the resolution and you double the grow time. This also corresponds to a price that is higher although not 'doubled' .. We work out the costs pretty well and give incentives for jobs that need be run at higher res.
Thanks for the time, and let me know if you have questions...

Thanks,
Marc Dantonio

President
FX Models
Web: www.fxmodels.com
Email: info@fxmodels.com

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Author Topic: Can it print a model boat (Read 6933 times)

RaaArtyGunner

Umi_Ryuzuki

joppyuk

brianB6

Fifie

Fifie

MikeA

MikeA

Watchleader

steamboatmodel

joppyuk

bobk

Umi_Ryuzuki

Bee

Umi_Ryuzuki

Bee

Umi_Ryuzuki