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[gregk9]

I was following a guy who was giving a superb description of building a clinker hull. He got as far as the third planks then tragically had a stroke and passed away. He was only young but his woodworking and wordsmith skills were marvelous. He inspired me to build a similar steam model. I have the engine (TVR1ABB), the boiler(3 1/2 Maccsteam) and the plans (S L Wear from float a boat in oz). I have looked until I'm crosseyed but can't for the life of me find that thread again. Can anyone help me please?

NB: The forum had a bit of a meltdown a while ago,
 this build is actually by Jerry!

Jerry C

[bikemec]

Jerry your post reminded me of the build by Greggy1964 but when I checked it's not a clinker but some great looking planking

the thread can be found here

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19422.msg289014#msg289014

[gregk9]

thankyou so much bikemec that's the very one, I was mistaken about the clinker however no matter as setup more or less same. Its the way the guy set it all up and his tips that are so important. with his info added to patternmakers, steamboat phil and bernards we should be ok. the model I finally decided upon is very similar to wide a wake but with an aussie connection. I've been trying to set it up while visiting family in Oz and only got home last night. built the engine out there, it's a little beauty and I nearly cried when I painted it. spoke to mike at maccsteam first thing and boiler  should be with me tuesdayish. small prob with a malformed part on engine but it ran sweet as a nut on 5psi air but can't run in till part replaced. I thought the thread had been removed because of his demise and so glad it wasn't. I hate the thought that when I die all the good stuff in my head dies with me and it seems such a waste. so if I should write something profound and useful or leave something behind of use to others leave it in please. 

[dreadnought72]

Hi Jerry,

Greggy did clinker, too...there's a wonderful intro to his model sailing canoe, here, and he was building clinker dinghies (based on a foam mould with trial-to-see-cardboard-later-thin-wood strakes on it) that appear in my Racundra thread here.

The technique he used certainly works and looks the part.

I agree with you regarding the forum's knowledge base: I suggested to Martin that the Master Hand build ought be placed in the Master Builds section, since it was a wealth of info, honest set-backs, and (best of all) solutions, even though the model wasn't (and now never will be) finished.

Best of luck with your build - and please post it up here as and when it gets going!

Best wishes,

Andy

[gregk9]

OK then the story so far. I ordered the engine (TVR1ABB) from Graham industries but was called away to deliver the new tug Farfan from Cheoy Lee shipyard in Hong Kong to The Panama Canal. My wife and I were already booked to fly to Australia to visit eldest daughter and grand kids mid october but it was thought I could fit the job in and get to Balboa before my flight to Oz. Unfortunately a few faults developed and I had to deviate to Okinawa for repairs. This caused me to miss my flight so flew direct from Panama the long way round via Amsterdam and Singapore. So I would have something to do while in Oz wife brought the engine kit with her and so I built the engine in Wodonga.
I won't go too much into the build of the engine but it was easy, the instructions were crystal clear, the parts were beatifully made and only required the briefest of lapping. I didn't use gaskets but used BMW Drei Bond jointing compound which I used on my K100RS water/oil pump bare metal joints. If its good enough for that job then it will be ok for 35 PSI and 135 degrees C on a likkle steam engine. the secret is to use only a tiny amount. I built the engine without any bits in it to paint it first. I used 2 very thin coats of etch primer and 2 coats of rust proofing cream coloured paint. the topcoat never actually felt like it had gone off and still smelt of paint after a week so I baked it in the oven at 140 deg C for 30 mins and its like glass now. I admit I nearly cried when I painted it but in a model I would never be able to keep it looking as good as it looked in shiny brass, stainless steel and polished aluminium.
I then built up the engine. On completion it felt very tight but even, however when rotating it by hand, I noticed one eccentric was kicking at the same part of the revolution. On closer examination I found that one of the two mail sliders in the reversing gear was malformed and slightly wedge shaped. I took a pic and e-mailed graham ind and he sent me 2 new ones foc. with profuse appologies. He sent them to my home so I couldn't run the motor in however it started first time on 20 PSI compressed air and ran on the slow notches at 5 PSI sweet as a nut.

[gregk9]

I uploaded 9 pics but none showed up. I resized them, is there a limit? So I'll just show the finished motor.

[gregk9]

While still in Oz I ordered the boiler and gas tank from Maccsteam (3 1/2" horizontal) plus a load of nipples and gubbins and pipe, and some ancilliaries from mainsteam. I gave instructions not to deliver until I returned home.
Initial thoughts were to build a windermere type launch and I planned to visit the steamboat museum for ideas but found out it was shut indefinitely. Many years ago when I was a deck cadet in Blue funnel some engineer cadets helped to restore a boat I thought was on Coniston but I was unable to trace it. I did however find a guy with a launch called Elpenor which was my first ship as a newly qualified 3rd mate. he had something to do with the restoration. anyway I couldn't find a clinker built boat except wide a wake and the african queen. then by accident I discovered Steam Launch Wear near Newcastle in NSW. I faxed an order for the plans to float a boat in melbourne saving postage and duty. she is a canopied launch very similar to the aforementioned pair but I liked the aussie connection so that's what i'm gonna build.
On my return home when jet lag gone I started. The first part is exactly as the Late Greggy1964 did so I,ll keep the words to a minimum cos he described it better than I ever could. up until the first 3 planks are in the story will be thesame as his. After that I'm on me own.
I started by building the box I'll be building on. this is the top, (I've added verticals with slots for a string to better line up the keel and center lines of the frames.)

this is the underside. made from 15mm melamine stiffened with 2x1 PAR. I scribed the centerline with the pointy bit in the router. The frame stations are penciled in.
next I traced the lines from the plan onto tracing paper folded in half. I transferred these lines onto outdoor 10mm ply and cut out the frames on the scrollsaw, finishing off the edges on the sanding station. A bit tricky as the lines represent the outside of the planks and the frames need to be inside the planks. then I offered each frame up to the plan and transfered the rest of the lines onto the frames. the frames are solid at the moment but tomorrow I will cut out the centers so I will have some where to clamp the planks to. construction will be glued using polyeurethane expanding glue. with the exception of keel bolts there will be no fasteners. nails and roves will be penned in. timbers (ribs) will be fitted for appearance only.




then the postman came.



oh wow!! christmas came early.

Beatifull work from Mike at Maccsteam.



plus bits from Mainsteam.



I'm not going to sleep tonight!!

[gregk9]

the picture of the underside of the box is floating around the ether somewhere. hope it don't hit anybody! Try again


and some more beautiful pics.

[dreadnought72]

Just as an aside to the clinker building guide part of this thread, a guy on the Wooden Boat Forum is making a clinker canoe (full-size) and has done a photo-sequence of how to add a plank to the moulds. It's very informative - and the same process we'd use on a clinker model if we wanted to do it just so. The link is here.

Best wishes,

Andy

[gregk9]

thanks for that Andy. up to my neck in steam plant at the moment but getting there slowly.

[gregk9]

Since my last post, I have been working on the steam plant. The replacement part for the faulty one on the reversing gear on the engine arrived from the U.S., ( he sent me three), so I was at last able to start running in. I just followed the instructions running on compressed air for three hours. Its a lovely piece of kit.
I accidentally broke the sight glass on the boiler, while putting a bit of wire inside to stop bubbles, so had to wait until new ones arrived from Maccsteam. The boiler is nearly completed so I pressured it up with air and set safety v/v  at 35 psi using a good pressure gauge. I found that the tiny one on boiler almost is the same and erring on safe side. I ran engine for a while on air and found regulator from mainsteam worked perfectly with very fine control and no creep when shut off. Just a few more parts to come and all will be done.
As I can't work on steam plant I carried on today with building the hull. I removed the frames from the building board and cut out the centers. then replaced them on the board. Next I transfered the outline of all the keel bits and stem etc. onto stiff card.  I will cut them out tomorrow.

[gregk9]

coffee table, allow me to introduce you to ............................














..............................Kitty.






Kitty, this is coffee table and I hope you will get to know each other well in the next few weeks.

I bought this, and a few more, circa 1977 in Takoradi. The others were given as presents. They cost then about £12. This one has been stood in the conservatory for the past ten years and has faded but the colour remains just beneath the surface. Can you see a launch inside?

Now, how to break it to the wife? Personally I think it's a mistake to get too attached to things.

I am sooooo in trouble, she may not speak to me for days.

[kiwimodeller]

As Mr NIKE says "JUST DO IT" ('cos its easier to get forgiveness than permission!)

[gregk9]

This is Mrs Jerry ....................Jerry may not be posting for a while................is hard to do when you have no working fingers anymore.  Did he tell you  my distant rellys are from Sicilly?    Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse!

[gregk9]

Did it.



 

lovely colour underneath.



The last two days I have been cutting and preparing wood to make the keel assembly. First I transferred the lines from the plan to thick card by pricking through with a pin then joining up the dots. Then I cut out the shapes and used these as templates pinned to the wood and drawn round. Here is where I cut the tip off one finger  . All my creations are signed in blood. I cut out the pieces on the scroll saw. I covered the plan with clingfilm and after lots of fettling of joints and edges clamped each piece to the plan gluing as I went.  I am using polyurethane glue. It's 100% waterproof, squeezes itself everywhere and goes off quickly. I glued up in stages as you've only got 5-10 minutes to play with. During this operation I marked out the line of the propshaft on both sides of the keel. I will clamp a boring jig on these lines when the shaft and prop (2.75"x 4.1") arrive from Prop-Shop. It's been two weeks now.   I got the idea for the boring jig from a book I got as a school prize at H.M.S. Worcester called "Care and Maintenance of Small Craft" by John Teale. It's the only thing I've used it for in 47 years!

   









Will clean up tommorrow and then get started on the transom.

[ooyah/2]

  (I accidentally broke the sight glass on the boiler, while putting a bit of wire inside to stop bubbles,)



HI Jerry,
Your quote above on the wire in the sight glass.
Were you trying to clean the glass or is this a trick to stop bubbles, if so can you please explain how it works as I have never heard of this trick.

Regarding the painting of your engine I think it looks great painted, it's so much better than all the polished brass work, best of luck with your build and hope your finger is better.
I look forward  to your posts.
 George.

[gregk9]

George, thankyou for your kind comments. wrt the wire in the tube, I read about on this forum but don't ask me where. Some one posted it and a few people reported they had tried it and it worked, so I made a note of it. If I may explain; I'm relatively new to modeling but not to making things. Models to me are real things but in miniature. I know a certain amount of the theory of steam and steam engines and have limited experience in the use of steam engines eg steam winches and stripping pumps on VLCCS. but I have no experience in building a steam plant or for that matter a clinker built boat. I have however owned when at the Worcester an Uffa Fox designed Redwing One Design sailing dinghy. It is the same hull as an International 14 but with a 3/4 deck. It was clinker built, so I have a fair idea how they go together. I was fortunate also to watch our 2 shipwrights rebuild (totally) a 27' Montague whaler on the upper deck. I have never forgotten what I watched. So since I joined this forum I have read (studied) everything I can find on steam and building this type of boat. I haven't asked many questions but in the time I have spent on the forum I have developed a feel for who are the best people to listen to if you get my drift. You are one of them. Many of your posts and comments have been avidly assimilated in my grey cells. thankyou. I will tell the story of the build but won't give any minute detail until I find something not already on this forum somewhere. It's the computer I have the most trouble with. I don't do much in the way of forms (?forae?) and find it all a bit of a struggle. Add to that it being my keyboard finger wot was cut   

[ooyah/2]

Hi Jerry,
It's always good to hear of somebody taking up the challenge of steam modeling as there has to be people behind us old woolly heads to keep the steam hobby going.

I have never heard of the trick of putting a wire down a sight glass and would strongly recommend against it as you have found out how easy it is to break a sight glass fortunately for you the boiler wasn't under pressure.
Besides you don't need to do this as your boiler has a blow down valve at the bottom fitting.
If you get a bubble in the glass all that you have to do is open and close  the valve and it will blow out any air. and clear the glass.

As you have bought your boiler from Maccsteam I am sure that the 3.5" boiler comes with a test certificate of a working pressure of 60 psi and the safety valve set to blow at 60 psi.
Now you say that you have reset the valve to 30 psi, in effect you have invalidated your test certificate, that is if Maccsteam set it at 60 psi.
I notice in the pic of your boiler that the safety valve adjusting screw is showing quite a bit of thread, this is because you have adjusted the valve to reduce the pressure to 30 psi.
How many threads are still in the valve body ?
I would strongly suggest that you readjust to 60 psi which would mean that you could reduce the heat from the burner to let 30 psi show on your gauge and save gas, it's all a balancing act and a great learning curve in the use of a small steam plant.

Your steam plant will make a very nice combination and will look good in an open launch , I look forward to reading of your progress.
George.

[gregk9]

hi again George, your comments well received. the wire in the sight glass was a very fine filament of copper wire. I forgot to put it back in when I replaced the glass. Maybe everything happens for a reason. The glass broke cos I dropped it. I found it as soon as I trod on it. Grey floor paint.
       wrt the safety valve, the photo was taken I'm almost certain straight out of the box, before I messed with it. I'll have a word with Maccsteam later. Now it's set at 30 psi with three threads showing. My reason for reducing the setting is because the insructions for the engine say; "when operating on steam, the boiler MUST have a safety pressure release valve set at no higher than 35psi and 30psi is preferred. Pressure higher than 35psi may cause mechanical failure in the engine.". Rock and a hard place! I'll see what mike says. If need be i'll wizz it back to him to be put right. Be a nice trip on the bike. c The plans call for a pipe to vent steam blow off above the canopy. I wasn't sure about the wisdom of this so I called Mike and he said its ok as long as pressure doesn't continue to rise when safety lifts. So I opened up the valve to see size of orifice to judge diameter of pipe required. Don,t worry George, I'll blow myself up before I hurt anyone else! At the rate I'm going exsanguination or septicaemia will happen first. Cheers, Jerry. 

[gregk9]

Today, first thing, I started by cleaning off the excess adhesive. It says on the bottle, "use sparingly, a little goes a long way". I was very frugal with it cos it ain't cheap and it foammed out of the joints about 1/8". It scraped of easily with a 1/4" chisel. A quick sand and, if I keep the resolution down, you can hardly see the join. Next I marked out the rabbet line, transferred all station lines to the top of the hog and the waterlines and sheerlines to the stem.
Like Greggy, I decided to cut the rabbet each side with the keel assembly in vice or clamped to the workbench and fit keel to frames later. I made a set of templates from the lines plan to guide my chiseling. I started on the stem and nearly finished cutting out a 1/4" wide bit at each waterline when I got a bit too far away from the vice and broke off one side of the block glued to the rear of the stem. so I called it a night. I should know what all these parts are called but they escape me when it comes time to type.

[steamboatmodel]

This looks like it could be very informative. For those who are wondering I think this is the plans Jerry C is working from, http://www.floataboat.com.au/FABPlansCat.pdf
Page 16. S.L. "Wear" 25 Ft Clinker Steam launch from the Sydney area.
I also found a site http://maggiejedda22.blogspot.com/2010/02/steam-boat-sl-wear.html that has photos of a S.L. Wear.
Regards,
Gerald.

[gregk9]

Hi Gerald, yes that's correct those are the plans. I've also seen that blog, very sad, she looks neglected and unloved. There is a pic of her under way on the British steamboat registry type sight.
Anyway I've had a lovely day.The bit I broke off yesterday was repaired overnight so I tarted straight off finishing the rabbet.  It's been doing my head in in the planning stage but as soon as I got a bit of bendy strip (formica edging strip to the table which fell off the other day), a small sample of plank and the templates , it all started to come clear. After I had cut a little bit at each station I just removed the bits in between. When I got close to finishing I just ran the 1/4" chisel round and round as a scraper. I could feel the high spots. I had planned to use coloured chalk as a marking/highlighting agent as Greggy did but soon realised that my boat is half the size of his and I got a pretty good feel for this kind of thing and I felt it was carrying things a bit too far. When I come to
fit the garboard planks I will improve on what I've done. The photos show room for improvement but they always do.
once the rabbet was cut and the bow blocks shaped (somebody tell me what it's really called, c'mon!) I moved on to fitting it all to the frame jig. When I set it out the first time I must have had a bad day cos it wasn't good enough. some were higher than others, some weren't even centered or square so I redid the lot. Then a couple of hours removing the notches softly, softly, cachee monkee it all fitted together. The frames will however need a little adjustment to get them to flow into the keel correctly. I'll do that next time when I chamfer off the waste side of the frames.
At last Its starting to look like a boat.
The final parts for the steam plant arrived today so I'll box that off tomorrow. I've also been on the lookout for some ali pipe for the outer funnel . It needs to be 12" long and 1.5" outer dia. I thought of an old cylinder hoover accessory tool pipe and asked on freecycle, but nothing came of it, then today daughter turned up with one. 1.4" but near enough. it's even got a built in flared end. 
just read my last post. this spell checker is thicker than me! And It couldn't deal with thicknessing at all.







PS. 1 scalpel, 4 very sharp chisels and NO BLOOD, honest

[derekwarner]

Hullo Jerry C .....the terms 'stem & stern' may come into play down the track.... the spell checker on Mayhem has been bombarded with them over the years 

I like many ...[I am sure] look forward to your build....keep up the good work & the photographs & the droll comments ... ...we love those

Oh BTW...will you be using timber from a timber merchant  ...or just continue to demolish door & furniture from home?...... ..........Derek

[dreadnought72]

This is looking great so far, Jerry!

...and thank you for admitting the "errors" (= "learning experiences"). I stabbed myself in the tip of my right index finger with a scalpel a week ago while cutting polystyrene blocks for my Racundra.

All my builds cost me blood. I was wondering when it would happen this time. 

Andy

[gregk9]

It turned out that the last bits for the steam plant weren't. I'm still waiting for the whistle. I will post a pic when it's completed. In the meantime I had a word with Mike at Maccsteam about the issues with the safety valve adjustment. He says that the Certificate is for boiler only, not fittings and that it is ok to reduce the pressure. He did however warn me that it may not be quite so reliable at a lower setting but is quite safe. I should own up that, when I stripped it down, I could see scores on the top threads where Mikes center pop locking had scuffed when I opened it. This proves that the adjuster was flush with the valve top when it left Mike and not, as I said, with threads showing. I apologise to Mike for saying otherwise. There are now 3 threads showing and 7 threads inside which is adequate. When I've steamed it a few times I will lock it in the correct position.
      Now, look what my nephew Ben "thinks" he's lent me , bless him!



I'll lend it back to him in my will! Plus a 3-jaw chuck and some extras which it needed. I'm going to have to teach myself how to use it. In the wrong hands it looks quite dangerous. I will eventually be able to make my own prosthetic limbs

For the last two and a half days I have been experimenting with kity, making planks. The wood from the table top is a much darker red than the wood from the base of the table. In fact I strongly suspect that the base from which I made the keel assembly is sapele, not mahogany. There is also an annoying kink in the grain causing a weakness 1/3rd the way from for'd. It is, however, very attractive to look at, if I mirror image the planks. When all is assembled though the strength will return. The planks are 2.5 mm thick and I broke one across this kink when I picked it up by one end. I still used it though cos it's a natural scarf. I did a test on a piece of scrap using a similar break and the poly glue and it will break somewhere else and not on the scarf. I cut the planks on the table saw to 3.5 mm thick, then stuck two planks onto a thick piece of prepared wood with double-sided ticky tape, then run the lot through the thicknesser to 2.5 mm thick. They can then be cold bent onto the formers without steaming.They are, however, very brittle, so I have decided it's better to bend them in stages at the stem. I left the garboard planks clamped overnight and they had taken a set which remained ok when clamps removed. I seem to have made a lot of sawdust!!!
      When satisfied with my method I roughed out the garboards and spent a long time refining the rabbet until the fit was perfect and after several dry runs with various cramping arrangements I glued them in place. This part has to be right as the rest of the construction relies on this assembly. Basically it forms a + shaped girder and is so much stronger than the sum of it's parts?? Prior to gluing up I protected the formers with sellotape as this doesn't stick very well to wood and will protect the formers from extruded glue and facilitate easy release from the formers. Famous last words!!

One pic seems to show a bend in the keel but it's an optical delusion same as the bend in the string line, honest.