Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.  (Read 16868 times)

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire

Ive noticed in the odd thread that there is some concern about the steam side of our hobby going the way of the dodo. Maybe im wrong, maybe there is a small growing society of enthusiasts in the making and im just not aware. I dont remember the age of steam, it was long gone when i was born but i have been on train rides and seen traction engines. Theyre is something about it all that i feel modern technology of my own generation lacks, steam is without a doubt an age of mechanical art which Ill never know.

Im going to have a bash at it either way and maybe ill get into it and one day in 50 years time ill be the one with concerns about the future of steam.

For starters ive noticed that this steam stuff is really expensive. Even the most basic engines and boilers are pushing up and beyond the £100 mark unless you go second hand mamod off ebay.
Im pretty skint most of the time so buying an engine that produces enough power to be useful is out of the question, it looks like im going to have to scratch build my own. I dont have a lathe or a milling machine so im going to have to make do with my usual hand tools, hack saw, files, stanley etc. Ive tried to build a working steam engine several times, all failed in one way or another. Anyway enough waffling heres my latest attempt:

Ive decided to make my engine out of plasticard. Scouring the forum and researching on the net ive come accross the simple osccilating steam engine. My previous attempts all involved a cam or crank operating the valves. Usually double acting and usually failing. here it is in bits:



It stands roughly 14cm inches high, it has a stroke of 4 cm and a bore of 1.7cm. The flywheel where is old paint tub filled with a mixture of pebbles and epoxy. The crank and con rod is 1/8th brass rod and all parts move in side brass tube with an internal diameter of 1/8th. Ive soldered on the big end made out of the tube and some collars on the crankshaft to stop it moving in the main bearing which also brass tube:





This engine is my first one that actually WORKS. It will turn by blowing the down the tube. I have bought a 12v car tyre compressor to run it, while it does create ample pressure it doesnt create enough flow so the engine barely moves. The only think that ive got at the minute other than my lungs to run it is an air bed foot pump,  it works ok but ideally i need a workshop compressor. Ive made a video of it running but its very bad quality so ill need to redo it. Youl just have to take my word for it that runs for now.
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 01:12:37 pm »

Ive made a video and uploaded to youtube. Until i have a steady supply or air the running is intermitant. But you get the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWk-8zZp_lw&feature=channel&list=UL

My next challenge is to make one out of brass and solder is all togeather. I want to use a mamod boiler or equivalent to drive it. I have electrical solder and a soldering iron. Will this work for making an engine or do i need something stronger? Ive been reading a bit about soldering boilers and engines and noticed that some of the temperatures of solders go up in to the 700 degC range and im find it a bit confusing what tpypes of fluxes and solders i need. If i need to use these kind of solders will a gas soldering iron do it or do i need a blow torch or something.

thanks
Logged

essex2visuvesi

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,147
  • Location: Finland, England, Finland!
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 01:13:59 pm »

You are a mad man!
Looks good tho
Logged
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity
Proud member of the OAM  (Order of the Armchair Modeller)
Junior member of the OGG  (Order of the Grumpy Git)

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 01:21:25 pm »

You are a mad man!
Looks good tho

whats so mad about a plastic steam engine?
Logged

rmaddock

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,051
  • Location: The Lake District, U of K.
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 01:27:29 pm »

Mad,
Good for you!
I too would like to "get into steam" but find the costs prohibitive.
However, I suspect that the health 'n' safety business has something to do with that. When I was a lad, tin plate steam engines were perfectly normal...I think my dad still has one in the garage somewhere.
I got a "cheap" kit from THESE people.  I've posted on here for construction advice and people have fainted with horror at the lethal nature of the beast.
Hey ho. The worst thing is I don't think they're necessarily wrong.
Be prepared to have to fight tooth and nail for you DIY engine though  {-)
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 01:43:46 pm »

ive seen those and was considering buying one. While im experimenting with building engines ill use compressed air, when i go the steam route ill use low pressure stuff such as the mamod gear.

why did people faint with horror at the nature of the beast? I know not literally but what was wrong with it? and why will i have to fight tooth and nail for my DIY engine. Im getting the impression that this venture into steam is going to last. {:-{
Logged

Circlip

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,565
  • Location: North of Watford, South of Hadrians wall
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2012, 02:03:24 pm »

Quote
I got a "cheap" kit from THESE people.  I've posted on here for construction advice and people have fainted with horror at the lethal nature of the beast.
Hey ho. The worst thing is I don't think they're necessarily wrong.


    Sorry, not fainted with horror, Perhaps a link to your original posting?  O0

  Regards   Ian.
Logged
You might not like what I say, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 
What I said is not what you  think you heard.

rmaddock

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,051
  • Location: The Lake District, U of K.
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 02:07:49 pm »

    Sorry, not fainted with horror, Perhaps a link to your original posting?  O0

Okay, here's a link: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=36531.msg365262#msg365262

Still haven't finished it 'cause I've had other fish to fry and "somebody" has tidied up the instructions. <*<
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 02:24:09 pm »

It doesnt look very promising for brass boilers, should i avoid this kit then?

Logged

pettyofficernick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,255
  • Marineville will be destroyed, Muahahaha.....
  • Location: Leasowe, Wirral
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2012, 02:28:22 pm »

Hi there, nice to see a bit of improvisation, looks good. I to am skint most of the time so I know where you are coming from on that score. There are several plans available for simple engines that can be built with a basic toolkit and don't need the use of a lathe, look for designs by Basil Harley, Tubal Cain ( TD Walshaw) and Edgar T Westbury, there is several designs in the Myhobbystore plans list. Here's an example for you to take a look at. Keep up the good work,
Regards,
Nick :-)) :-)) :-))

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/17458/marine-steam-plant-mm546
Logged
What I do is best not discussed, for I have been many things in my time....

pettyofficernick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,255
  • Marineville will be destroyed, Muahahaha.....
  • Location: Leasowe, Wirral
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 02:32:20 pm »

It doesnt look very promising for brass boilers, should i avoid this kit then?



Copper is best for making boilers, Try and get a copy of  Building Simple Model Steam Engines by Tubal Cain, a brilliant little book. I have 2 copies infact, you can have one gratis if you want, pm me youe adress and I will bung it in the post.
Regards
Nick.:-)) :-)) :-))
Logged
What I do is best not discussed, for I have been many things in my time....

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 02:35:30 pm »

yes id appreciate that ill pm you
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 02:45:51 pm »

that site of plans is very good too, the plan you have shown though seems nice and simple. Im now not sure though what route to take. Should i get the kit with the parts or go all scratch build from plans? I can deal with the engines, they either work or they dont but its the boiler im worried about. It will need silver soldering which i havent done, pressure testing and im going to need something like a blowtorch to do it with.
Logged

pettyofficernick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,255
  • Marineville will be destroyed, Muahahaha.....
  • Location: Leasowe, Wirral
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 02:52:32 pm »

Hi there, I use a Silverline propane torch got mine brand new from fleabay, came with 3 burners and cost about 20 quid. also, have a look at this website, loads of info on silver soldering, and they sell small amounts of materials, so you wont have to buy industrial quantities.
Regards,
Nick :-)) :-)) :-))
Logged
What I do is best not discussed, for I have been many things in my time....

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 02:59:47 pm »

does it matter what type of torch i use? ive seen this one on ebay and addes to my watch list

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270954508796?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

I dont know if its any good. it says it will go up to 2300F or 1260degC seems like its up to the job. also this i think will be handy for small stuff even if not for steam

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271006242862?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
Logged

scoots

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Paris, France
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 03:36:43 pm »

Hi Mike,

I beleive these torchs are on the toy side.
May be able for soldering pipes but not for larger jobs.. {:-{
Try something like Sievert torch.

My 0.02

Alain
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 04:41:35 pm »

Ill have a shop around ive noticed those seivert torches go for 70 odd quid.

ive seen these ones too:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320894109576?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290660520580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

I think the second one is the better one
Logged

rmaddock

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,051
  • Location: The Lake District, U of K.
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 04:49:12 pm »

Don't get anything too small.
I had/have a small torch like the first you listed. I was hot enough but not enough of enough.....if you get my meaning. You could heat up a very little bit of work.  If you look at my posting HERE, you'll see what I was trying to braze and what torch I ended up buying.  The gammon iron in question wasn't very big at all but the small torch's heat was just being whisked away by the metal.
The torch I got was from B&Q and wasn't £70 but it was also not as cheap as the one's you're looking at.
When I was helped to solder my brass boiler, the chap used TWO big torches to get sufficient heat.
Logged

scoots

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Paris, France
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 05:17:14 pm »

i cant afford that i might aswell buy a ready made boiler for that price. I think thats what ill do anyway. Buy the boiler and then make my engines.

i noticed rmaddock that the peice in the cup was tiny. did you need that massive torch to do that?
Logged

pettyofficernick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,255
  • Marineville will be destroyed, Muahahaha.....
  • Location: Leasowe, Wirral
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 06:10:53 pm »

Have a look at this one, It has done everything I have asked of it, the regulator is on the same page, brilliant for silver soldering on a budjet.
Regards,
Nick.. :-)) :-)) :-))

http://www.tools4trade.com/d-10473002-silverline-456996-general-purpose-propane-torch-25-35-50mm.aspx
Logged
What I do is best not discussed, for I have been many things in my time....

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 06:21:07 pm »

i saw that one on ebay but it didnt come with gas. I came up with the conclusion this would work:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320894109576?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

Ive just watched this vid on youtube and the extensive heat required to make a boiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIJ5SLTGVNc&feature=channel&list=UL

If i go the kit route would the heating gear youve shown be able to do this kit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kit-build-your-own-model-live-steam-stationary-engine-/400264537685?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d31a02655
Logged

pettyofficernick

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,255
  • Marineville will be destroyed, Muahahaha.....
  • Location: Leasowe, Wirral
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 06:46:03 pm »

Indeed it would, the 50mm burner is amazing, I have used it on 3inch 16 swg copper tube with no problem. Look out for a little book called Soldering and Brazing by Tubal Cain, an excellent book which tells you all you need to know, it is what I learned from and its only a fiver or so and well worth it.
Regards,
Nick. :-)) :-)) :-))

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soldering-Brazing-Workshop-Practice-Tubal/dp/0852428456
Logged
What I do is best not discussed, for I have been many things in my time....

ooyah/2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 766
  • Location: Glasgow
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2012, 09:03:36 pm »

Mike,
Don't be put off of building your own boiler, the boiler and engine kit that you are considering will be very easy to solder if you follow the makers guide lines.
For the pressures that you will be working on and the volume of the boiler brass is O.K.

Don't use soft solder use silver solder and forget about these burners with the needle flame they are useless for soldering a boiler.
Have a look in B& Q or any other D.I.Y. store for a plumbers blow lamp which won't break the bank to buy one and it will be of use for many jobs in the future.

The problem with brass for a boiler is that some people find a lump of brass tube without info on where it came from or the properties of the brass which can be very porous and dangerous.

Manufacturers of brass boilers can buy large quantities of known brass of constant quality, they have to, to avoid litigation if some thing happens and they can't show proof of quality.

The plumbers blow lamp will also be fine for soldering your engine when you come to make it,  so go on mate have a go and join the BURNY FINGER BRIGADE it's great fun, there are plenty of knowledgeable members to help.

George.




 
Logged

Mad_Mike

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,596
  • Lincolnshire
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Re: First attempts at making a steam plant, well air powered for now.
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 01:24:38 am »

right so it looks like the kit it is. Thanks for clearing that issue up for me george.

Nick unless i can find a glow lamp locally ill go with the one you use. I suppose ill need to source some gas for it. thanks for the help on that fella.

If i am then to use this kit boiler is it then ok to run different engines off it? I have seen some steam engines and boilers use plastic tube from the boiler to the engine. In theory I should be able to connect up what ever engine i want, well within limitations of flow rate of course.

Ive noticed that one you use nick is a propane torch. Ive also noticed butane is another widely used fuel. can i use either or?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.097 seconds with 22 queries.