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[herrmill]

Has anyone seen or know anything of Graupner's pending ARTR release of the SMS Emden?   After reading the earlier post on Prinz Eugen, I am somewhat concerned as to what one can expect for the investment.

http://www.westbourne-models.com/erol.html

Chuck

[Pointy]

Well I took the Prinz out for the first time last weekend and it ran very well. The running gear is very good and the model leaves a really nice wake, it attracted a lot of favourable attention. The only negative comments came from an old man with- a model boat
For the price it compares well with a fleetscale model and it saves you an awful lot of time and is well built.
However, repairing it and making modifications is a real headache as you have to do a lot of paint matching.
If you want something to sail while building your own boat or a start into the hobby go for it and don't be put off by any snooty remarks.
Be careful where you get it from and how much you pay for it.

I have some photos of the Prinz but I can't upload it onto this website  :(

[herrmill]

Thanks for the news on your Prinz Eugen.  I certainly respect those who enjoy building - am one myself - but I also want to have more toys to play with than I have time to devote to building myself, hence my interest in the Emden.  I've visited TianJie, Graupner's source for the Prinz Eugen & S-100, & have attached a photo for your reference of where your model came from.  Its amazing how many units they can produce each month.

I've sent you a PM.  Please send me your photos if you don't mind as I'd like to see how she looks on the water. 

Chuck

[offshore1987]

herrmill, this is abit random but do you also have any pics of the Premium Line Cap San Diego being built?

pointy, if its oks could you maybe send me the pics too id really love to see this model on the water :) as im not sure as to which boat to get out of the 2  ??? my email is danielirwin1987@msn.com

P.s only send if you want to :)

cheers dan

[herrmill]

Dan,

Haven't seen anything other than the PE & S-100 &, aside from the PT which is supplied by ThunderTiger, not certain where Graupner may be getting these new models from. 

Chuck

[Pointy]

Hi Guys,

Hope to have some pics of her on the water soon. Trouble is I don't own any sort of camera so rely on borrowing a digital one from a friend- who has now told me she has lost the recharger for it!

[offshore1987]

hi again just a random question :) i was wondering if when they have built the ship that they have been thinkin of the owners addin bits, like smoke and things like that? would it be possible/easy to add one of these to the sms emden? http://www.westbourne-models.com/erol.html#4704X4722

or would it be a right work up to fit one?

 cheers dan

[herrmill]

Pointy, did you ever find that charger to get your camera working??? 

Would love to see some photos of your Prinz Eugen on the water. 

Chuck

[herrmill]

I see that Dave Wooley posted a photo of Graupner's Emden that was shown at the recent Dortmund show.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=146954#146954

[A Model World]

SMS Emden is about 6 weeks away Cap San Diego is about 8 and if you see another post re PT 109 and s 204 there is a guy who has seen the Eugen and I believe similarly impressed as Dave Wooley was with the Emden ( and it must be good for Dave to take a picture of as he knows his stuff)   yes you can fit smoke and other items with some limitation eg its difficult to fit say a bowthruster in the Rotterdam but having said that I know of one guy that has

[gary r uk]

hello amw
is there a price for emden
cheers
gary r

[A Model World]

£ 569.00

[PSSHIPS]

Problem I see here!
 With all these RTR things, who will make models?
 It is a skill to be learned and more satisfying than buying an off the shelf mass produced peice of plastic.

 In my opinion, the more of these things people buy, the more the hobby will die.

 Rant over, Paul...

[Robert Davies]

Like having quality rtr gear has killed off the model railway hobby....

No wait....

Or, put another way, my primary interest in model sailing, is just that, *sailing* - Construction is very much secondary to me.

-Rob

[PSSHIPS]

All I know is, if one of these fast rtr toys damages any of my smaller new build warships that I have built for a client that has taken months to build and sometimes worth thousands out for the first time on test, they will be sunk by the covering rescue ship/ support ship, failing that, the rtr toy will be stamped on or bricked/ burned or otherwise despatched along with it's owner.
 I am sick of inexperienced people who turn up at the other side of lakes where a club is sailing and just put their peice of crap in the water and try and sail it. They cause too much havoc, do not have insurance in some/most cases, probably most and just upset alot of people who actually build models. The same goes for fishing bait boats!

 On the other hand, they are good for people getting started in the hobby.

 So where do you go from here.
 
 Trains have been RTR from day 1!

 Paul...
 

[tigertiger]

Not so sureabout the comments in the last post. I think what I am trying to get at is, RTR will get some people to the water, who would not otherwise have gone there. And some of those will aspire to greater things.

I looked at RTR and thougt
Not value for money, toy like and so, so performance.
Some who buy RTR and run on the lake with other model boats will quickly see this.
Most RTR motor boats go at walking pace and as someone on another thread pointed out, a good tug will leave them standing.

I have bought some RTR toys, since building my own. These toys include:
HT Torpedo boat, I paid 9 quid UK 99 quid
HT Challenger Aircraft carrier, I paid 17 quid, UK 125 quid (ebay 35 quid)
They are OK for the money I paid, but I get bored very quickly, and so do the kids I see playing with such toys.



My first boat was a fairly easy kit (Victoria),
My second kit required more work (Mary J Ward), a bit expensive but I enjoyed the build, and the boat looks nice on the water.
The kit I would like to build is out of reach, 600 pounds, plus P&P (190 quid), plus import duty for China.
So I will begin scratch building.

[PSSHIPS]

Nice one Tiger, someone is going to build something, ie , you!
 This is good.

 Buying an off the shelf "thing" is not the best thing to do in my opinion, especially when they don't do what they say they do.

 Then on the other hand as I said earlier, it is a good way to get the youngsters to the hobby started, but, then when the cheap plastic thing doesn't work the way it says  it should, the said youngsters, get board very quickly and give up!

  So why make these silly things in the first place, I remember when I was growing up, things like these were available in the 60s and 70s and worked much better then, than they do now.

 What the problem is.

 There is too many other things to occupy the youngster these days and only the dedicated go through and carry on.

 The main problem is at a lake side as I said, some "numpty" putting a  toy boat in the water from a garage forecourt on the other side of a lake while a club is sailing, these people do not have any idea at all what they are doing and this then cuases major problems with the club guy's boats in some cases. Radio gear etc.
 There is no regulation on these toys.

 They will be dispatched if they effect me while I am sailing on our lake in this case.
 Paul...

[Pointy]

Well the Graupner ARTRs are not toys and need some work to install radio equipment etc... There is also scope to alter things you don't like which is a challange in itself as you have to match the paint, get the scale right and so on. For example I scratch built the catapault and other parts on the Prinz as I didn't like some of the bits it came with.

Reason for buying such a thing is time, confidence and the subject. I want to get on the water with something that looks mature while I very slowly build something myself. Confidence as it took me 8 months to build a Model Slipway coaster- who's finish is now being slowly ruined because the varnish is starting to react with the paint- months after I built the thing. Subject as the only other models of the Prinz are by Aeronaugt ( a smaller scale, inaccurate and an ABS hull which I hate) Then there is Fleetscale which means shelling out an awful lot of money for a hull, fittings etc but no superstructure.... I'd have to do that myself and I don't have a prayer right now although I can build and nothing beats building and sailing your own boat. Its a pity Graupner did not offer some of these ARTRs as kits.

[PSSHIPS]

Good point, pointy, why don't these companies offer them as kits also?
 I think the upper market range of RTR's are not too bad, but, need work.
 What I mean is and will stress again is someone showing up at a lake with a 29.99 special red and white plastic THING? And messing stuff up from the other side of the lake and the same people think that they had a "MODEL" and it doesn't matter wether their 29.99 things does hundreds of pounds worth of damage and another 6 weeks in drydock to a real MODEL and then think it is part of the fun????????

 In this case, I personally would be in KILL mode!
 Paul...

[A Model World]

Yes I do agree with PSSHIPS on the 29.99 thing but as those who have a Prinz Eugen or another artr from Graupner will realise these are a lot better quality than that and we are selling them to people who care eg not the sort who cant steer etc but I think these boats can be summed up by two of our customers one in Gloucester who is a one man walking boat show in his own right, all war/battleships all scratch built bar one, he had a shelf fell down at Christmas and damaged badly his scratch built Prinz Eugen. I was surprised to find him ordering an artr one but his reply was 'I'm 69 I haven't got 2 years spare to build another' and he was intent on changing a few bits, the second guy has been trying to get a boat second hand or built as he freely admits he cant build, secondhand he always just missed it seemed and to have one built he couldn't really afford so bought one like this. Now I count him as a new recruit to the hobby and lets face it we need the new recruits all the time. These kits seem to be being bought by responsible individuals who are either newish to the hobby or have no time spare to build and lets face it they aren't going to want to damage there 5 6 or 7 hundred pounds worth at the lake either. that aside many 29.99 things have in the past appeared with an experienced modeller now and again and used sensibly they have there place its the used sensibly bit that counts

[malcolmfrary]

The bottom end RTRs usually have really naff nasty radio - if your model is more than twenty yards away from their transmitter then it will probably be totally unaffected by whatever they do.  The transmitters, for cheapness, lack power.  The receivers, for range, are very sensitive.  To be both sensitive and cheap, tuning is very imprecise.  If they are on the same general band as you, 27 or 40, then you will affect them, usually by stopping their boat dead.  This is an opportunity for us to appear gentlemanly and helpful.
There are however some low-ish price RTRs that have "proper" radio.  These can be a problem as they do work and the performance can surprise the owner, and as has been pointed out on another thread, not always by a total newcomer.