Topic: help needed - to identify 1942 N Africa riverboat (Read 7998 times)

bat44 · « **on:** October 20, 2012, 09:06:47 pm »

was given this picture by a fellow club member and said this would be a good one to make. I believe it's was taken about 1942 and was used on the river Nile and used as a rescue craft that's all i know so can an one help me

***Topic name modified***

vnkiwi · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2012, 10:15:37 pm »

An interesting one.
Looks like aircraft floats, with a well built wooden cabin, and driven by a 7 cylinder rotary aero engine and prop.
more info anybody?

cheers
vnkiwi

Arrow5 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2012, 11:04:42 pm »

Could be a "Walrus" flying-boat engine. Tailfin is typical De Havilland, probably a Tiger Moth or similar. Seaplane floats for sure. Try history of seaplane bases on Lake Timsah or the Great Bitter Lake, both in the Suez Canal Zone. Interesting bitsa, for what purpose one wonders.

derekwarner · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:30:58 am »

& kiwi say a 7 cylinder engine

I understand he is about 1000 km away from where I am viewing.....

.......but suggest it could be a 8 cylinder engine ......

.....

But then again I am only viewing on a baby Ultrabook computer as my real HP Pheonix has been taken away under warranty by the

HP men in white coats.......

....

.......not happy either with this cut down keyboard.........

......Derek

bat44 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2012, 01:38:34 am »

have looked on the big wide web but have come up short for now, would like a few more pics to help in the build HELP

derekwarner · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2012, 02:24:46 am »

goodness....

my grammer is very poor with this cut down keyboard..........sorry

a = an
say = says.......

maybe too much drink?

vnkiwi · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2012, 03:40:48 am »

Engine most likely to have been one of the english smaller rotaries, which usually came in 5 or 7 cylinders, like the Armstrong Siddiley's or Bristols
cheers
vnkiwi

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2012, 08:57:23 am »

It could be a Walrus engine, however, the Walrus was powered by a Bristol Jupiter 9 cylinder radial engine, and the one in the picture only seems to have seven cylinders...

Arrow5 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2012, 10:49:43 am »

Quote from: vnkiwi on October 21, 2012, 03:40:48 am

Engine most likely to have been one of the english smaller rotaries, which usually came in 5 or 7 cylinders, like the Armstrong Siddiley's or Bristols
cheers
vnkiwi

That will be "radial" vn, rotaries went out in WW1 , I think

. Don't get started on Wankel engine descriptions

Back to the airboat. I wonder if was an official special purpose craft, not for river, lake or canal use but maybe in the Gebel Ataka marshes, note the reeds in picture. The "cabin" looks as if it may have been a punt styled boat previously, perhaps the floats were added to an existing craft

?

tigertiger · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2012, 10:59:25 am »

It does look like something cobbled together from old aircraft bits.

Does anyone recognise the tailplane?
Or know what kind of seaplane might have been in theatre in 1942

This may be a special project, or it may just be a project put together from a damaged aircraft. The sort of thing a REME workshop's ASM might have played with to keep the boys busy. I can't see it being used tactically as you would hear it coming for miles, and I imagine hard to maneuver.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2012, 11:09:42 am »

The fin is very "de Havilland" Moth style. I wonder if the date is accurate, what was happening on the Nile in 1942 ?

Arrow5 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2012, 01:05:17 pm »

Hmmm , an interesting search on the mighty Google identifies the floats as from a Fairey "Seafox" (or similar) which leads to the Fleet Air Arm and HMS Nile II which was their base at Alexandria on the River Nile delta. There was also a section of "Combined Operations" (later Commandos) stationed at Kabrit on the Bitter Lake and the need for shallow draft craft. Getting a bit murky now, some good reading.

Netleyned · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2012, 04:28:15 pm »

Seems to me it was something built by the mechs that serviced the cabs at the naval air station out of bits lying around
just like scrapheap challenge. The pilots would have had it as a diversion from flying.
No chance of it being a covert machine with a radiial on the back end.

Ned

Arrow5 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:19:45 pm »

Wonder if Vic Smeed served in Egypt ?

You are correct PONick noisy with prop noise, I see it has exhaust collector ring which would help. Looks like the builders made two portsides ,this side has the bracing on the outside like an estate car/station wagon.

Circlip · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:21:01 pm »

Seven cylinder radial with a collector ring and a pusher prop? Gunbus?

Regards Ian.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:26:54 pm »

Nah, that WAS a rotary engine.

Circlip · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:34:13 pm »

Quote

S.B.1 1914 design for dual control trainer based on E.F.B.3 and powered by 100 hp (75 kW) Anzani radial engine. Unbuilt.[20][21]S.B.1 1914 design for dual control trainer based on E.F.B.3 and powered by 100 hp (75 kW) Anzani radial engine. Unbuilt.[20][21]

Arrow5 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:47:09 pm »

OOPS I thought they were Gnome Monosupapes.

Either way they would have been a long time in gash stores. Anybody identify the uniforms, fellow on right foreground could be RAF or army, officer at helm could be RNAS or RN or army.

tigertiger · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2012, 06:02:39 pm »

Thinking out of the box for a moment.

If this is a scrap heap project. Some of the bits could have been from downed German aircraft.
Another challenge would have been cooling an air cooled motor running constantly at low speed.

Arrow5 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2012, 07:55:50 pm »

A bit off-topic but a certain Charles graaf de Lambert ( Count) was operating his airscrew driven hydroplanes on the River Nile in 1914. A bit more primitive than our WWII mystery machine. This illustration was a possible military version, also an idea for a fantasy scale model , nes pa ?

Link: www.charlesgraafdelambert.nl look under Hydroplane and New Industry

ardarossan · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2012, 08:33:35 pm »

If you do a Google search using the picture's title, you will find an album of the North Africa Campaign. The illustration of the mystery plane/boat, is ccompanied by the following description:

"This hydroplane is part of the R.A.F. rescue service in the Middle East. It operates on the lakes of the Nile Delta for the assistance of pilots who may make forced landings in the water. Consisting of a cabin mounted on seaplane flats it is driven by an aircraft engine and propeller mounted in the stern and steered by an aircraft rudder. There are also rudders on each of the floats. The top speed of the craft is about fifteen knots. Photo taken on March 11, 1942. (AP Photo)"

Andy

bat44 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2012, 09:07:31 pm »

that's as much as i know about this craft adross, tried searches on that area but have come up with nothing so far.as for the parts that made up this craft the closet i have come up with is the blackburn shark but nothing on the boat its self

ardarossan · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2012, 03:06:39 am »

I've just spent the best part of two hours scanning the 'net, for any clues to the beastie shown in the first post of this thread, to no avail.
The same picture appears on a handful of websites, and all share the same description which is lifted from the Associated Press website.

However, whilst searching, a couple of things crossed my mind which I thought I'd mention as they may get someone else thinking about it afresh.

If this is an RAF Rescue Craft as the description would lead us to believe:
a) Why is it so slow - Rescue craft need to be fast?
b) Why isn't it finished in a military scheme with recognition markings?
c) Why doesn't it have doors, lights, windows, armour, radio aerials, an MG mount, etc... ?
d) What advantage does it provide over the boats and/or Floatplanes that were already operating?
e) Why would RAF personel build a 'Rescue' craft from such a mish-mash of components, with reliability and ease of maintenance being high priorities for any emergency vehicle?
and finally...
f) Supposing the description was wrong, where else (and when) could this be? India?...

Andy

raflaunches · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2012, 12:32:33 pm »

For some strange reason this picture is ringing a little bell somewhere in the back of my head, I have seen this picture before and I think I know where but I can't be sure. It will take three weeks to confirm because of me being stuck in the Falklands away from my info and books but if anyone is a member of the Small Craft Group and subscribes to the Journals I think I remember seeing it in one of the recent editions in the last two years. It stands out from the rest but I am sure that's where I saw it last with some more info.

TailUK · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2012, 12:52:39 pm »

A suitable candidate would be the D.H.75 Hawk Moth. The tail shape is vey similar, it came as with float plane option and it was fitted with a 7 cylinder Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah engine.

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Author Topic: help needed - to identify 1942 N Africa riverboat (Read 7998 times)