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Author Topic: ET Westbury Flash Boiler  (Read 10079 times)

rfurzer

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ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« on: April 09, 2014, 03:06:35 am »

I have been reading about non-racing plants and have found this boiler - see attachment


Has anyone built one to this design?


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ooyah/2

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 08:53:03 pm »

I have been reading about non-racing plants and have found this boiler - see attachment


Has anyone built one to this design?







Russ,
These pics in E.T.W,s book are concept designs and from all of my researches in M.E. mag on flashsteam I have never come across anybody who has actually built one nor one like the Flash generator on the previous page of his book.

It would be a very difficult build to make the coil in a figure of eight and the drums with all of the fins, this design is not a flashsteam generator but if built would produce very super heated steam.

If you are interested in flash steam generators and engines get a copy of   EXPERIMENTAL FLASHSTEAM X BENSON & RAYMAN, lots of ideas for engines and coils.

Hope this helps

George.
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rfurzer

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 11:08:27 pm »

Thanks George- and good to hear from you. I do have the book.
 
I have seen and admired the boiler that you designed with "patternmaker" for his twin launch project. any chance of having a squiz at the drawings?

Also note with glee your thread on the st feed pump.

Russ
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 03:39:20 am »

I have been prototyping a version of this boiler. In the rayman/benson book reference is made to the boiler from a boat called Amazon from 1936. The design is very similar but without the finned water and steam drums. Mine is also similar, and without the finned drums, although it does have an economiser section and a superheater section. The coil is 19 feet of 3/16 kunifer brake-pipe.
Its all very new and experimental at the moment, i only started it last thursday. But anyways, heres a vid of it 5 minutes into a 19 minute run of a stuart BB10.


http://youtu.be/tsKS4Y4wItQ


And another, slightly larger engine-


http://youtu.be/iirAwVnu-9E


All in all i can really recommend this figure 8 coil pattern. Ive been using mine with 'soda can stove' spirit burners.



Quite an astonishing amount of bang for the buck. Which hasnt been very much bucks at all,  maybe 20 pounds and some bits from the spares box. Mines going in a straight runner once its past the prototype stage..


All the best


Rich
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KBIO

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 06:32:41 pm »

Hello.
Interesting indeed! Congratulations! :-))
Maybe an alternative to Flash Steam??? Safier at least! %)
I have a few question though!
1- What is the inlet pressure inside the machine? I see a silicone tube which does hold that much pressure :  4/5 b
2- What is the water pumping rate? (More or less)
3-What quantity of spirit is needed per min (+/-).
A bit more details on each components with a small comment is welcome.
Thanks for answering.
Regards

Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 10:24:51 pm »

Hello! Yes it was silicon tubing, which got replaced shortly after these videos were made. I have an amusing one of it exploding. It was used because i only started experimenting with it on thursday evening, and i wasnt expecting it to work first time!!! Apart from the roll of brakepipe, everything else used is from the scraps box, and so not chosen because of suitability, but simply because it was to hand...


I was told the silicon is good to 60 psi, but i very much doubt that now, or at least it should be derated for high temperatures. Anyways, the system is all copper pipe now, and is much happier.


Ive also built a new fully sealed enclosure along the lines of the one in the books, and it also works very well. Inlet and exhaust vents at the top, and 3 spirit burners.


 I ran it today 7 times and it consistently and reliably and in the end, predictably;
Used 40 ml of fuel per burner per 15 minutes
Had steam up in 40 seconds
Had the engine spinning in under 2 mins 30,
And had achieved 'full military power' by 5 minutes in, which it maintained for on average, another seven minutes before the burners started to run out of fuel one by one, and it would drop down to cruising speed, and then finally 'dead duck' speed at the end..
It happily runs at 25psi. It can be made to race up to 50psi , but normally seems to self regulate back to about 25 or so.
The engine had a 'torque brake' on the flywheel to create a load.
At least one of the burners runs out of fuel by about 13.5 minutes after initial lighting of the fuel.the other two normally run out within the next two minutes.


The engine stalled under load at about 14 mins 30


It was normally dead with the torque brake removed by 16 minutes. Longest run was 20 minutes.


It no longer turns into a three foot pulsing fireball whilst running with three burners, the new enclosure contains it all within its shell. Which is very good, it was terrifying before!!


It used 1.25 ish litres of feedwater per run, the longer ones used a bit more


When everything is hot and running well (5 minutes since initial meths ignition) the pump varies from about 120 to 160 pumps (beats?) per minute (sorry im not an engineer, im a musician and instrument maker... i listen to what its sounding like to tell me how its running. You can hear all kind of harmonic resonances developing sometimes, due to the electric pump maintaining a constant tempo, which at some speeds resonates the natural harmonic frequency of the coil, and at some speeds of the engine, it can join in with tones of its own too, and create beat frequencies and (i presume) standing waves in the steam pipe that suddenly appearin and occasionally cause it to surge or race away....)


I mostly think of it as a 19 foot long, half wave resonator pipe. Same as a pipe organ. But with a steam engine at one end... ;c)


The pump is i think 3/8" bore and 1" stroke.
It generally runs between 20 and 50 psi at the outlet manifold. I have a safety valve set for 70 psi.

It has two bypass valves, one goes to the engine as a throttle, one over the side. I might try running it with a vacuum condenser and a chuff pot, so the 'waste' bypass valve may get used as an exhaust injector to draw a draught up the chimney. Probably join it into the system after the condenser and before the chuff pot.

Ill try and post some pics, once ive read the image posting rules...


Cheers!
Rich.


Ps, this flash steam stuff is really really good fun!



/edited twicedue to spelling and grammmar badnesses
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 10:50:47 pm »


The 'business end' - pump manifold, with various one way valves, and the outlet manifold, with bypass valves, steam valve etc. like i say, tis is all made from cack from the spares box, it needs to be manned up with something better, but tbh in the 4 days since i built it, I've had a ton of fun and it hasn't exploded yet, so....


One of the burners with the firebox door open--->





And closed--->




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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 11:33:11 pm »

This is 'Pressure Vessel I', which it magically fits in, as if it had been designed to, which it wasnt... But; yay!
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rfurzer

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 02:37:34 am »

Wow! That's really interesting. Beautiful boat too.

What is a BB10? - never heard of it
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 03:01:08 am »

Thanks! Shes made from a set of IKEA blinds and a pine shelf i pulled out of a skip. The blinds were made from Birch, so shes double diagonal planked in birch on a spruce framework, with a pine keel and lower hull. ;) Finished in many, many coats of home mixed Garnet shellac varnish undercoat , lots of rubbing down and polishing and stuff, and then some yacht varnish topcoats. She was originally designed for a top heavy babcock boiler which has subsequently blown a watertube, so i need to play with ballast... She was designed to displace a large amount of water, and to counteract her previously top heavy tendencies theres 7 kilos of lead in the bilges.... So illl need to tweak that!


But im hoping shell work. This boiler weighs a fraction of the weight of the old one, so im prepared for some surprises!!


The stuart BB10 was a racing version of the 10V that was only available from stuart as a factory built unit and was made for a few years between 1936 and maybe 1940something? They are an enclosed, aluminium crankcase casting, with iron piston, cylinder head and valvegear and had a ballraced main bearing. Splash lubrication, looks like a cokebottle. Proper swoopy 1930s artdeco industrial design! Its probably my favourite single cylinder in my collection. They were designed for flash plants, but are quite rare. I certainly love mine!
Cheers! All the best,


Rich.
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rfurzer

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 03:10:38 am »

Although we got a glimpse of the BB10 on the youtube clip, I wonder if you might indulge us with a photo for our viewing pleasure?
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 03:14:59 am »

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rfurzer

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 03:15:52 am »

Thanks for the BB10 phot - pretty groovy.

I also found the website on the "soda can stove" - pretty neat. Does the fuel in the open well burn on its top surface as well as the vapourised fuel burning in the jets?
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 03:16:15 am »

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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 03:19:06 am »

Probably? But by the time the jets kick in, and you have three of them going, there is a LOT of flames so its hard to tell. Hot ones. Like a three foot fireball with a flywheel on it. But tbh, build one of the burners and find out! Only takes a couple minutes ;c)


Cheers!


Rich.
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KBIO

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 07:28:40 am »

Hello!
Thanks for all those datas.
 Maybe , we can call it "Soft Flash Steam"?
I like it.
Cheers. ok2


Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2014, 01:11:20 am »

I don't know what to call it... Cruising power flash steam? Spirit fired once through steam generator? Maybe the Poor Mans Flash Steamer...

My vote is for the Victoria Flash Boiler. There's evidence that this pattern of coil was used by members of the historic Victoria Model Steamboat Club in London in the thirties. (The VMSC is the oldest model boat club in the world, dating back to 1904. We have a beautiful pond in Victoria Park in East London where I live, and we run straight runners, tethered hydro and the occasional rc boat on Sundays.) I built this one because I'm a member of the club and every normal boiler I own has some problem or other that's prevented me from getting a safety certificate and running a boat this season. So I've built this one to sidestep the problem- no pressure vessel, ergo; no need for safety certificate!
Also, the Victoria Flash Boiler sounds quite cool.. ;c)

I really can't recommend enough that more people take the plunge into flash steam- it's comparatively easy and cheap, and you don't need any special equipment, and you don't need a boiler cert. it can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be, as long as you don't want tethered hydro type speeds! Otherwise it's more or less just get pipe, bend pipe, steam it!

Cheers!

Rich
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2014, 01:20:18 am »

I've been progressing with my task of turning mine into a serious marine power unit. I have remodelled it, and made it about 35 mm shorter, and quite a lot lighter, and mounted it on an aluminium chassis along with all the other bits. I've added a condensor/ heat exchanger/ feed water preheater, an oil separator, and geared down the pump motor further. I must admit, I'm pretty pleased with how it's looking!

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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2014, 08:09:34 pm »

heres a 4 minute vid of the latest test run. its now running on camping gaz canisters, and heating the coils via a Vango mini folding camping stove that cost about 20 £/euro.


http://youtu.be/uM7W1bPE1B0


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uM7W1bPE1B0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


as you can see, it runs pretty well now! the end of the video shows it clearly producing quite dry steam, in that once the burner is shut off with the bypass valve open and the pump still running, it takes some time before drops of water appear in the condensing steam.
hurrah!
i just need to sort out a water tank/ pond water filter and its going in the boat.


cheers! ;)


rich
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rfurzer

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2014, 10:29:14 pm »

Very nice.
I have had a play with burners based on those stoves. Is all the gas burning in the casing. Or do you get flames out the stack ( eg if run in the dark)?
R
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2014, 10:36:51 pm »

I don't know! I haven't run it at dusk in this new configuration yet. When I tried it yesterday (before fitting the blower valve) the burner was having problems staying lit at full on. Today, with the blower valve installed, it struggled till the valve was turned on, and it roars away quite happily after that! I was really surprised by the difference it made!
I'm going to try and enlarge the air intake vents anyways, it will probably only help?

Hopefully I'll be able to increase the oxygen supply enough to enable two burners to be used. They flip flop between which one is alight and using all the air and which one is just wasting gas at the minute if you try running it with two.. :c/
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2014, 10:49:35 pm »

Also I've fitted an extra 4 feet of pipe in before the existing run and attached it to the cold water feed end as an extra economiser. The heat exchanger already does a great job at heating the feed water, so I guess it can only help. Seems to work at any rate! It goes in cold, comes out too hot to touch, and the exhaust steam goes in hot and comes out as mostly quite hot, but not uncomfortably hot water, and oil and a small amount of vapour.

I'm thinking of adding a steam trap to separate out the last of the water in the steam line before the engine. This is basically a pressure vessel version of a chuff pot/ oil separator isn't it? I was thinking of using a small pot boiler as a makeshift trap- wet steam in at one end, steam out of the other and all the water collects in the bottom. And space for yet another safety valve....   ;c)
Cheers!
Rich
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KBIO

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2014, 05:32:59 pm »

Hello!
Jolly spiffing demonstration! :-))

ps: do not laugh at my old fashion english! :}

Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2014, 06:12:40 pm »

Thanks!
And don't worry, your English is perfectly smashing! :-)

I'm going to try it in an hour or two at dusk.

I've also got it going on two burners. You have to get one going, and get the blower on, and then bring on the second. After maybe 40 secs, you can turn them both up full. Gets to 25 psi easily, up to 35-45 by upping the pump speed and blowing into the inlet vents. More ventilation needed! It seems to use about 250 ml of feed water per 5 minutes, as a rough guide.
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Synthpunk

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Re: ET Westbury Flash Boiler
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2014, 09:16:08 pm »

It turns out this boiler, for a number of reasons that have only come to light today, don't work so good in the metre length boat I built it for. It's just too much power for a small hull .. (Hooray!!) so I'm going to have to build a bigger boat. So I thought, if I'm going to build a big boat, why not try a really big engine?

 So, in the blue corner; weighing in at probably something like 90 cc capacity, with three cylinders of one inch bore and stroke, is the Enigma Engine: a valveless design with only 9 moving parts in total ( not including the two pumps, which aren't connected to anything) ; built sometime in the early 1900s by an unknown maker..

And in the red corner, my flash boiler. Here's the result-

http://youtu.be/PC3A9Umcvik

inexplicably just cruising along at 30 psi, (10 psi higher than previous maximum with the BB10 without changing anything!) then turning up the pump and the heat and pushing it to 40...

The higher load has resulted in higher pressure. Running this engine off compressed air on a large compressor, it empties the tank faster than the 1.5 hp motor can sustain it. I have never managed to run it on a normal boiler without it emptying it of steam. It's huge, it's hungry, and coincidentally it sounds like a spitfire. This engine was built for low speeds and high torque. It's a beast.

I think I've finally built my dream power plant for my favourite engine...

Hooray!!

Cheers!

Rich.
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