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[pdq]

Hello everyone, I am researching for my type 21 HMS Active build. She has 4 number portholes forward on the starboard side (possibly because of officers quarters) No portholes exist on port side. Does anyone know the size either full scale or what they would be at 1:72? I would like to replicate them as accurately as I can! Nothing on the drawings that I have unfortunately. Many thanks in anticipation and a happy new model boating year to you all! Paul

[derekwarner]

Pdq.....I am sure you have seen the Fleet Scale plan set for £ 47.95 ....so whilst this may seem expensive, they would [dependent on quality] provide you with the detail not only of the portlights, but of the entire ship.....

Researching and drawing up a vessel from dimensions and photographs can be fraught with danger of inaccuracy.......if you are serious about building a detailed model of this vessel, the 48 Quid would be a good investment

Derek


1/72nd Plans of HMS Active in 1976.
3 Sheets.
Reference:  F/72/0/21A
Quantity: 
£ 47.95

[jonggd]

Hello Pdq,
 I would suggest you get a set of plans from Jecobin (google Jecobin Plans to find the web site), there are a set in 1/72 scale so you can get the exact size of the port holes. Regards Jon.

[pdq]

Hello Pdq,
 I would suggest you get a set of plans from Jecobin (google Jecobin Plans to find the web site), there are a set in 1/72 scale so you can get the exact size of the port holes. Regards Jon.

Hi Jon and thanks for the advice, i purchased the semi-kit of the type 21 from fleetscale with plans which are fantastic but of the port side only, hence the question. I will call Jecobin to see if they have any other additional information. Paul

[pdq]

Pdq.....I am sure you have seen the Fleet Scale plan set for £ 47.95 ....so whilst this may seem expensive, they would [dependent on quality] provide you with the detail not only of the portlights, but of the entire ship.....

Researching and drawing up a vessel from dimensions and photographs can be fraught with danger of inaccuracy.......if you are serious about building a detailed model of this vessel, the 48 Quid would be a good investment

Derek


1/72nd Plans of HMS Active in 1976.
3 Sheets.
Reference:  F/72/0/21A
Quantity: 
£ 47.95

Hi Derek and thanks. I purchased the semi-kit of the type 21 from fleetscale with plans which are fantastic but of the port side only, hence the question. I have spent the last two months researching from pictures and books but cant find anything on the porthole detail. I am building HMS Active circa 1977. Paul

[Allnightin]

From memory, these are the scuttles in the Captain's day and night cabin (in theory so he can see the situation at first hand when the OOW is reporting an approaching ship that he is likely to have to give way to).

I'm fairly sure that they would be the same size as those seen in other contemporary RN vessels and immediately preceding classes such as Tribals and Type 12s but I don't have the figure to hand at the moment. 

[raflaunches]

If memory serves Jecobin plans show both sides of the ship in extremely good detail. I've bought quite a few over the years (mainly of minesweepers/hunters) and they have shown both port and starboard general arrangements. Well worth the money in my opinion.

[pdq]

From memory, these are the scuttles in the Captain's day and night cabin (in theory so he can see the situation at first hand when the OOW is reporting an approaching ship that he is likely to have to give way to).

I'm fairly sure that they would be the same size as those seen in other contemporary RN vessels and immediately preceding classes such as Tribals and Type 12s but I don't have the figure to hand at the moment.

Thank you for the info which is really useful and i will be able to get an approx size from the other classes.  Paul

[pdq]

If memory serves Jecobin plans show both sides of the ship in extremely good detail. I've bought quite a few over the years (mainly of minesweepers/hunters) and they have shown both port and starboard general arrangements. Well worth the money in my opinion.

Thank you for the info. I will look into Jecobin and no doubt purchase a set to supplement my fleetscale plans. Paul

[mudway]

In 1/72 scale, the stanchions are 15mm, you should be able to work out the size of portholes from them. My guess is 3 > 4mm.  That they are only on one side but photos of both sides show it to be true.

[pdq]

In 1/72 scale, the stanchions are 15mm, you should be able to work out the size of portholes from them. My guess is 3 > 4mm.  That they are only on one side but photos of both sides show it to be true.

Thank you Mudway, I will go with this as I was guessing around 3mm. Great pics showing good detail. Your research is much appreciated,  have actually started the model now by completing the asymmetric bilge keels so will put up a build log over the net couple of days. Have a good new year! Paul.

[derekwarner]

"will put up a build log over the net couple of days"

Paul.....there is no better place to start your build-log than here on top of this thread ...as it displays some great research

Just rename the  Subject as you wish....HMS Active build by Pdq?.............after a nominal period, a request to a Moderator to change the actual Subject filename back to HMS Active build by Pdq

Derek

[pdq]

"will put up a build log over the net couple of days"

Paul.....there is no better place to start your build-log than here on top of this thread ...as it displays some great research

Just rename the  Subject as you wish....HMS Active build by Pdq?.............after a nominal period, a request to a Moderator to change the actual Subject filename back to HMS Active build by Pdq

Derek

Thanks Derek- a good tip

[littoralcombat]

Hi Paul,
I have two sets of T21 plans. The Marine Modelling ones, which do not show the portholes at all. I also have the Jecobin HMS Active in 72nd. Whilst the side profile shown is the Port side, the portholes on the Stbd side are shown as hidden detail.
They measure approx 5-6mm diameter, depending on which one. They would of been all the same size I believe....I would be tempted to go with 5mm, which gives a true size of 359mm.
I seem to remember that one of them was in the CO's bathroom. And yes, he had a real bath, the only one aboard.
Nige

[littoralcombat]

I also agree with Allnightin, the likelihood is that they would be standard Pusser's issue, so to speak, and would be the same as those fitted to other RN vessels. A quick measure of my HMS Plymouth Jecobin 72nd plans reveals them to be 5mm diameter.
I will certainly be going with that size in the future.
Nige

[pdq]

I also agree with Allnightin, the likelihood is that they would be standard Pusser's issue, so to speak, and would be the same as those fitted to other RN vessels. A quick measure of my HMS Plymouth Jecobin 72nd plans reveals them to be 5mm diameter.
I will certainly be going with that size in the future.
Nige

Nige thank you for your response and the time taken to measure the scale size. I think Cornwall Model Boats sell 1:72nd scuttles so will get them to equate to 5mm. Have a great New Year! Paul.

[pdq]

hi nige, still on this I'm afraid.....would the scuttles have been flanged?  stockists seem to be able to supply both types. thanks for your help.

Hi Paul,
I have two sets of T21 plans. The Marine Modelling ones, which do not show the portholes at all. I also have the Jecobin HMS Active in 72nd. Whilst the side profile shown is the Port side, the portholes on the Stbd side are shown as hidden detail.
They measure approx 5-6mm diameter, depending on which one. They would of been all the same size I believe....I would be tempted to go with 5mm, which gives a true size of 359mm.
I seem to remember that one of them was in the CO's bathroom. And yes, he had a real bath, the only one aboard.
Nige

[John W E]

Hi All


Hate to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak, but, some dead lights (portholes) were actually escape hatches on the side of these ships which were slightly larger than the standard port light, to allow the use of a person to pass through in cases of extreme emergencies.  So, its worth checking if you want to be scale accurate


John

[Netleyned]

Probably fixed Scuttles as they would have been in the ABCD Citadel.
Also, opening ports would have interfered with the Air Con which came in with
the Tribals in the Early Sixties.
Ned

[John W E]

Hi there
Sorry I cannot find a pic of the dead lights on the Type 21 at this current time, but, I do have a picture - see below - HMS Orkney - and you will see there is a difference in size of the 'port holes' = the larger one is an escape port hole - which does not interfere with the air conditioning or anything like that.  They are only opened for escape purposes.
john

[Netleyned]

A Deadlight is either a thick glass set in a deck or hull,
or a wooden or metal shutter to cover a porthole.
On Eskimo, the Officers cabins had fixed glass ports.
with deadlights inside.
On a Darken Ship routine ie no lights whatsoever showing
outboard, a hand was sent round all the cabins to make sure
the deadlights were closed.


Ned

[pdq]

Hi bluebird many thank for the great pic and interesting to see the difference

Hi there
Sorry I cannot find a pic of the dead lights on the Type 21 at this current time, but, I do have a picture - see below - HMS Orkney - and you will see there is a difference in size of the 'port holes' = the larger one is an escape port hole - which does not interfere with the air conditioning or anything like that.  They are only opened for escape purposes.
john

[pdq]

Thanks Netleyned, good to understand real life running!

A Deadlight is either a thick glass set in a deck or hull,
or a wooden or metal shutter to cover a porthole.
On Eskimo, the Officers cabins had fixed glass ports.
with deadlights inside.
On a Darken Ship routine ie no lights whatsoever showing
outboard, a hand was sent round all the cabins to make sure
the deadlights were closed.


Ned

[mudway]

I thought escape hatches were last seen on the Darings and were only on the hull. You can see there design in these shots.

[Allnightin]

I doubt that the T21 scuttles could be opened but I can still remember having to lean out through the open scuttle of my cabin in HMS Gurkha to polish the brass surround.