Topic: Chris' HMS TIGER (C20) - 1:72 SCALE (Read 385933 times)

frogman3 · « **Reply #350 on:** April 18, 2020, 09:37:30 am »

An now a pic of both sections sprayed in grey primer for the bow section again to show any imperfections in the hull as when my filler turns up by postie I can get on an get the hull nice an level an sorry about the bad pic as I dint think about the light from the window
https://ibb.co/RbWK2Qk

frogman3 · « **Reply #351 on:** April 18, 2020, 09:41:57 am »

AN these turned up by postie yesterday an they are the mini led strip lights for the hanger that im now building an the 9v batt plug will be cut off an the leds will be wired into the ships wirein
https://ibb.co/gvn87PF

frogman3 · « **Reply #352 on:** April 18, 2020, 09:47:05 am »

AN lit up but to me they look to bright so I will fit a unit in to cut down the power from 9v down to say 7.5 v an see how that looks if still to bright then turn down the power a bit more to say 6v until im happy with the brightness in the hanger bay
https://ibb.co/NnqfxQK

frogman3 · « **Reply #353 on:** April 18, 2020, 09:51:11 am »

AN this is the unit that will do it an its a car 12v power converter that fits in the car cigar lighter socket
an this unit will be cut down to a smaller size as most of it I don't need
https://ibb.co/3FVnQ5F
well that's it for now
Chris

JimG · « **Reply #354 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:07:59 am »

Dimming LEDs by reducing the voltage does not work well. You might find they stop working as they go below the minimum voltage before the brightness drops enough. Dimming LEDs usually uses a pulsed power supply (why you often see them flicker with a digital video). Possibly a forward only ESC could be used for this job, it would only need to be a low current one.
Jim

frogman3 · « **Reply #355 on:** April 18, 2020, 10:31:17 am »

Quote from: JimG on April 18, 2020, 10:07:59 am

Dimming LEDs by reducing the voltage does not work well. You might find they stop working as they go below the minimum voltage before the brightness drops enough. Dimming LEDs usually uses a pulsed power supply (why you often see them flicker with a digital video). Possibly a forward only ESC could be used for this job, it would only need to be a low current one.
Jim

HI Jim many thanks for that info on the leds but i'll give it a try first an if you are right then i'll do like you say or fit a heavy resistor to lower the brightness cheers
chris ATB stay safe

Weaver · « **Reply #356 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:01:32 am »

Quote from: Rob47 on April 17, 2020, 08:19:11 pm

Same radar different mounts for two totally different ships, the data and info I have passed on comes from the guys who served on Tiger

Bob

Here's a video of a Harrier taking off from Blake, where you can see the 278 rotating through 360 deg:

https://imgur.com/gallery/HyT39TM

The link to the video came from this site, which has a great article on the Tigers, complete with lots of big, clear photos (if you download them):

https://www.navalanalyses.com/2016/08/warships-of-past-tiger-class-cruisers.html

Doing a bit of reading, it seems that the 278 was a modernised version of the 277Q, which dated back to WWII, with new components to improve reliability, but working in the same way. 277 (of which 277Q was an update) was primarily an air/sea-search radar, which only started to be used in a height-finding role later. Air/sea search radars scan, by rotating 360 deg, by definition. There's a scan rate in the specs: 16rpm max. A system to stop the scanning had to be added later in order to do height finding.

There aren't many good online sources for info about radar unfortunately (at least that I've found). Wikipedia doesn't have an article on the 278, but it does have a long and well-sourced article on the 277 here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_277_radar#P_and_Q_models

From that article:

"The Type 277 was a surface search and secondary aircraft early warning radar used by the Royal Navy and allies during World War II and the post-war era."

"The 277 used a 500 kW magnetron... and added a plan-position indicator (PPI) system with several remote displays."

"The resulting system, Type 277Q, arrived too late for Project Bubbly and did not see service until the post-war era. In tests aboard HMS Illustrious in March 1947, 277Q provided reliable detection in the TI role out to 85 miles (137 km) and heightfinding to 55 miles (89 km), dramatic improvements on the 293."

The 'TI role' mentioned is Target Indication, which basically means 'air-search with enough precision to point weapon systems'.

Why would a pure height-finder use a PPI (Plan Position Indicator: the classic 'radar scope'), which is designed to show a map-style 360 deg view around the ship?

Speculation: (I have no evidence for this, it just makes sense to me) The Type 278 was mostly used as a height-finder on Tigers, so it was usually stationary. However, at times when they didn't want to use the big Type 965, for instance when close to other ships or helicopters whose crews they didn't want to fry, they swtiched the 965 off and used the 278 in it's search mode instead. I know the 965 is rotating in the video, but just because it's turning, doesn't mean it's transmitting: the Type 1010 IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) transponder is mounted on top of the 965 aerial, so that'd be reason enough to keep it going round.

ANYWAY, taking my 'obsessive geek' hat off for a minute, the object of the exercise here is to help Chris build his model, and the good news, as far as I can see, is that there isn't a wrong way to build the 278! Rotating, still, turning back and forth at random, it's all good.

Stay Safe,

-Harold

frogman3 · « **Reply #357 on:** April 18, 2020, 11:40:21 am »

ANYWAY

Taking my 'obsessive geek' hat off for a minute, the object of the exercise here is to help Chris build his model, and the good news, as far as I can see, is that there isn't a wrong way to build the 278! Rotating, still, turning back and forth at random, it's all good.

Stay Safe,

-Harold

OH WELL DONE Harold

MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP an that's how im gonna build it then as at the moment im now starting to build the hanger an as you have found out about that 278 radar I will plan the build accordingly so I can fit in all the crown gears on the main radar sharft to to turn the 278 an to fit in the main mast MANY MANY THANKS for that an all the pics an info which will be of immense help an for takein the time to find out all this

ATB Chris stay safe

ballastanksian · « **Reply #358 on:** April 18, 2020, 03:10:06 pm »

Sorry if I was too flippant when noticing your wife's unhappy expression. Obviously I wasn't aware of her cancer, but still, I hope she is winning the good fight with it.

The progress is astounding and looks really good.

frogman3 · « **Reply #359 on:** April 18, 2020, 05:36:49 pm »

Quote from: ballastanksian on April 18, 2020, 03:10:06 pm

Sorry if I was too flippant when noticing your wife's unhappy expression. Obviously I wasn't aware of her cancer, but still, I hope she is winning the good fight with it.

The progress is astounding and looks really good.

Quote

That's ok an yes she is a fighter an we hope her cancer is in remission but she says she is takein it a day at a time an she has good days an bad so just got to keep on ploddin on as they say. An thank you for your kind remarks of my tiger build yes she is slowly comin on still about 4yrs building to do so im happy
ATB Chris an jen

Rob47 · « **Reply #360 on:** April 18, 2020, 09:25:08 pm »

It looks more like ossicilating than full rotation which ties in with what I was told by rx tiger/Blake rechs

Quote from: Weaver on April 18, 2020, 11:01:32 am

Here's a video of a Harrier taking off from Blake, where you can see the 278 rotating through 360 deg:

https://imgur.com/gallery/HyT39TM

The link to the video came from this site, which has a great article on the Tigers, complete with lots of big, clear photos (if you download them):

https://www.navalanalyses.com/2016/08/warships-of-past-tiger-class-cruisers.html

Doing a bit of reading, it seems that the 278 was a modernised version of the 277Q, which dated back to WWII, with new components to improve reliability, but working in the same way. 277 (of which 277Q was an update) was primarily an air/sea-search radar, which only started to be used in a height-finding role later. Air/sea search radars scan, by rotating 360 deg, by definition. There's a scan rate in the specs: 16rpm max. A system to stop the scanning had to be added later in order to do height finding.

There aren't many good online sources for info about radar unfortunately (at least that I've found). Wikipedia doesn't have an article on the 278, but it does have a long and well-sourced article on the 277 here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_277_radar#P_and_Q_models

From that article:

"The Type 277 was a surface search and secondary aircraft early warning radar used by the Royal Navy and allies during World War II and the post-war era."

"The 277 used a 500 kW magnetron... and added a plan-position indicator (PPI) system with several remote displays."

"The resulting system, Type 277Q, arrived too late for Project Bubbly and did not see service until the post-war era. In tests aboard HMS Illustrious in March 1947, 277Q provided reliable detection in the TI role out to 85 miles (137 km) and heightfinding to 55 miles (89 km), dramatic improvements on the 293."

The 'TI role' mentioned is Target Indication, which basically means 'air-search with enough precision to point weapon systems'.

Why would a pure height-finder use a PPI (Plan Position Indicator: the classic 'radar scope'), which is designed to show a map-style 360 deg view around the ship?

Speculation: (I have no evidence for this, it just makes sense to me) The Type 278 was mostly used as a height-finder on Tigers, so it was usually stationary. However, at times when they didn't want to use the big Type 965, for instance when close to other ships or helicopters whose crews they didn't want to fry, they swtiched the 965 off and used the 278 in it's search mode instead. I know the 965 is rotating in the video, but just because it's turning, doesn't mean it's transmitting: the Type 1010 IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) transponder is mounted on top of the 965 aerial, so that'd be reason enough to keep it going round.

ANYWAY, taking my 'obsessive geek' hat off for a minute, the object of the exercise here is to help Chris build his model, and the good news, as far as I can see, is that there isn't a wrong way to build the 278! Rotating, still, turning back and forth at random, it's all good.

Stay Safe,

-Harold

frogman3 · « **Reply #361 on:** April 19, 2020, 07:10:00 am »

Quote from: Rob47 on April 18, 2020, 09:25:08 pm

It looks more like ossicilating than full rotation which ties in with what I was told by rx tiger/Blake rechs

HI Bob sorry no disrespect

meant to you but ive looked at that vid several times an the radar is revolving but once it picks up a target then it may go into the ossicilating mode so that way both ways are right .

An many thanks to you for all the help with the photos an info you have helped me with CHEERS

ATB stay safe
chris

ballastanksian · « **Reply #362 on:** April 19, 2020, 11:28:15 pm »

I don't see four years as a long time Chris. Like everyone, we have times where we can't stand seeing the model or something stumps us and we dabble with something else or real life knocks on the door and we have to poke at it with a broom handle.

I started my destroyer in 2014 and the Monitor in 2016. I have a foam plug I started in 2012 and other projects. I know we are not the only ones in this category, hobbyists are by their nature enthusiasts and hoarders of cool shiny things

I wish your good lady well, a relative of mine recently got diagnosed with Cancer so understand a small bit of what you both are going through.

frogman3 · « **Reply #363 on:** April 20, 2020, 05:38:35 am »

Quote from: ballastanksian on April 19, 2020, 11:28:15 pm

I don't see four years as a long time Chris. Like everyone, we have times where we can't stand seeing the model or something stumps us and we dabble with something else or real life knocks on the door and we have to poke at it with a broom handle.

I started my destroyer in 2014 and the Monitor in 2016. I have a foam plug I started in 2012 and other projects. I know we are not the only ones in this category, hobbyists are by their nature enthusiasts and hoarders of cool shiny things

I wish your good lady well, a relative of mine recently got diagnosed with Cancer so understand a small bit of what you both are going through.

HI

ballastanksian yes I love long builds so 4 yrs ain't to long like you have said an im enjoying the build an thank you for your kind comments regards the wife

chris

Weaver · « **Reply #364 on:** April 20, 2020, 11:29:53 am »

Just testing...

frogman3 · « **Reply #365 on:** April 20, 2020, 05:52:51 pm »

Quote from: Weaver on April 20, 2020, 11:29:53 am

Just testing...

HI Harold what are you testing ? whats there a problem ?
chris

Weaver · « **Reply #366 on:** April 21, 2020, 06:50:25 am »

Quote from: frogman3 on April 20, 2020, 05:52:51 pm

HI Harold what are you testing ? whats there a problem ?
chris

No problem - I was just seeing if I could show you a way to get your pics to appear in the thread, but this board's configured differently to others that I post on so I can't do it 'my' way. Then it turned out that you can't delete posts on here either, so I had to put something otherwise it'd be a mysterious blank post...

frogman3 · « **Reply #367 on:** April 21, 2020, 07:35:07 am »

Quote from: Weaver on April 21, 2020, 06:50:25 am

No problem - I was just seeing if I could show you a way to get your pics to appear in the thread, but this board's configured differently to others that I post on so I can't do it 'my' way. Then it turned out that you can't delete posts on here either, so I had to put something otherwise it'd be a mysterious blank post...

HI Harold many thanks for tryin an ive treid an others have treid to help but to no avale as I live in a low megabyte area an my pc just wont do it as it runs very slow but at least with the piclinks I can show the build pics an yes I would have been scratchin my head wonderin what you was goin to say so cheers for that an I wonder why you cant

delete any posts ? on here

ATB stay safe
chris