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[gingyer]

I don't know if anyone is affected with the incoming IR35 changes from HMRC?


I was wondering what you have been told from either accountants or agencies, how its expected to affect you
as the information I am getting is all over the place.

[RST]

I heard something was coming but nothing seems clear?  I pay my accountant to manage this for me, but they've said absolutely nothing about anything.  My agent is in Paris so not really affected.


I am intrigued what is coming, or supposed to be coming!?


Rich

[Taranis]

This is a good information source
https://www.taylorhopkinson.com/ir35/

[BrianB6]

Moderators
Not sure why this subject is on Mayhem.

[Taranis]

This is the chit chat forum Brian
States discuss almost anything here
No exclusions are expressed

[gingyer]

Moderators
Not sure why this subject is on Mayhem.

As said it’s in chitchat.
Whilst it may not affect you it possibly could see me loose approx £1000 per month in earnings
Yet the full legislation has not been unveiled and lots of various agencies, recruiters and accountants are saying various things so I asked on here if anyone else is affected and how as on mayhem there is a wide range of backgrounds of people.


I hope that answers the question.

[gingyer]

I heard something was coming but nothing seems clear?  I pay my accountant to manage this for me, but they've said absolutely nothing about anything.  My agent is in Paris so not really affected.


I am intrigued what is coming, or supposed to be coming!?


Rich

Rich,
Basically your client(s) have to make a decision on how you operate for them and if you are deemed inside or outside the IR35 bubble. If you are outside no worries continue as normal.
However if inside which is where HMRC are hoping most people end up then prepare to be screwed.


You will either be taxed at source full employment taxation or have to work through an umbrella company.
Gone are tax deductible expenses.


For me last year I spent approx £14000 in Hotels, PPE, Training, Tools and equipment. If the information I am getting is correct then I will still have to pay this out but it will also be taxed before hand then paid out of my pocket.


Some big banks are letting their IT contractors go or offering full employment at Very much reduced rates.
Engineering companies like what I work for are doing the same  it’s a total shambles!

[Martin (Admin)]

Moderators
Not sure why this subject is on Mayhem.

.... some members could be affected .... and no one is arguing yet!   

[C-3PO]

HMRC IR35 online tool

Maybe of some use?

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-employment-status-for-tax/disclaimer

C-3PO

[RST]

My accountant did an IR35 review for me last autumn. It was mandatory for an insurance policy against investigation.


I've checked with them again recently as this is what I pay them for, and I seem to pay a lot each month!!!


The HMRC checker is not well respected.  Everywhere you look the feedback is that it's quite openly designed to catch you out. Give it a try if you haven't yet. It's amazingly frustrating compared to the alternatives!


I think we all or mostly know IR35 is out there. What's not so clear is the impact of the changes.  And Mr Javid quit anyway so is there a chance it is not a priority now??


I think the only person who can answer this is your accountant or financial advisor. I won't be posting any numbers for my business on here, though it's good to see I'm not the only person a bit confused!


Rich

[gingyer]

Thanks C-3PO,
I used that and it just mixes everything up more.

[gingyer]

Rich appreciate the info and I’m glad it’s not just me as well.


Not going to ask for figures I only put some of mine on for illustration to those unsure why this is pretty important to me.


Hopefully something will get sorted 

[justboatonic]

Although Im retired after a 20 year IT contracting career, I try and keep up to date with this absolute dog's breakfast of legislation. Contractor UK has a whole sub forum dedicated to the reforms and Id advise current contractors use it to keep up to speed https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/ir35-reform/
As has been mentioned, the onus for declaring the contractor caught or not now falls to the fee payer. Many banks and risk averse clients are declaring they will no longer engage limited co contractors because of this since if they give a wrong determination, they're on the hook for the taxes. So it's permie, umbrella or FTC if you want to stay working with them. Even working limited via a consultancy service like Accenture will not be accepted by some banks.

Im reading some agencies are trying to shift the indemnity onto contractors but the legislation is quite clear who it sits with.
If you're currently onsite determine outside IR35 but the client has said from 6 April this year, your role has been determined inside or, they will only engage you as a permie, FTC or umbrella contractor, you'd be well advised to look for another role with a different client due to potential retrospective investigations by HMRC. HMRC have said they wont do this but with many contractors previously outside now determined caught by the client with no change of role, the risk of HMRC reneging is too great.
Essentially inside IR35 means no expenses and taxed at source. So if you're working away from home or do a big daily commute etc, all that cost has to come out of taxed income.
Good luck and Im glad Im out of it!

[gingyer]

Thanks Justbostonic.
It’s a bit of a joke at the moment
I build substation and wind farms the information we are getting is so varied it’s scary
And HMRC are saying nothing.


I used the CEST tool and completed it as both client and contractor and got different results
One was outside the other for the client said I had to contact them to discuss further. I did that and
Well..... that was a waste of time.


I read today some financial people on LinkedIn crunched some numbers and think the cost to HMRC revenue
Could be about £1.5 to 2 Billion pounds lost in revenue for April alone!

[justboatonic]

Thanks Justbostonic.
It’s a bit of a joke at the moment
I build substation and wind farms the information we are getting is so varied it’s scary
And HMRC are saying nothing.


I used the CEST tool and completed it as both client and contractor and got different results
One was outside the other for the client said I had to contact them to discuss further. I did that and
Well..... that was a waste of time.


I read today some financial people on LinkedIn crunched some numbers and think the cost to HMRC revenue
Could be about £1.5 to 2 Billion pounds lost in revenue for April alone!

CEST is an utter joke. It beats me why any self respecting contractor actually worked on the project to develop and deliver it. Did they think they'd somehow be exempt from it's findings? In any event, HMRC will always try and argue the information entered by whomever enters it, doesnt reflect the 'true' working practices.

HMRC always over inflate their new 'tax take' partly because they know Government officials in the Treasury rub their hands in expectation. But they forget, while they may increase direct tax receipts, they lose all the VAT, corporation and dividend tax receipts they collected from limited co contractors.
The big danger for any contractor is staying in contract with the same client for any period that spans 6 April 2020. Clearly anyone who was deemed outside prior to the 6th, is doing the same or essentially the same role post and the client has either now deemed inside or retained the 'contractor' as a permie, FTC or umbrella terms. They're going to be a sitting duck for HMRC investigation they were really 'inside' all along and, if they have been contracting with that same client for a couple of years uninterupted, could be facing a huge tax bill.
Be very careful out there.

[RST]

I heard of a "change" in February.  I've not had anything from my accountant or agent though it's a bit different for me working abroad.


Watching this I'm seeing pretty conflicting information.  I'm just trying not to take fright as I've not been in business that long and I pay over £2k pa for accounting and full financial advice so I trust things are in hand though I have a few questions more.  I also have insurance that requires me to have a full IR35 compliance review and signed report (duly done).  I take my advice from them rather than hearsay.


This post, to be honest, apart from a friend a couple of weeks ago is the only time I even heard about changes -but my friend in my opinion is on way more ropey ground on lots of things.


I have been advised things are a bit different from here, so I'm not panicking while I have things in writing, but I think I need to dig a bit more.


For me there is no work in UK -when the oil market crashed I was out of work for so long I was penniless (before anyone asks: no you can't scrub toilets if you have a degree, I tried for long enough to pay the bills!!).


So I lost everything before but back in work.  I just got some cash in my account this past 6 months and been hit with tax!  So I'm back down a good bit.  Now I'm told there's more tax...


I fully expect to be screwed again whatever.  I have been fully shafted my entire career looking back so far!


Rich

[justboatonic]

I heard of a "change" in February.  I've not had anything from my accountant or agent though it's a bit different for me working abroad.


Watching this I'm seeing pretty conflicting information.  I'm just trying not to take fright as I've not been in business that long and I pay over £2k pa for accounting and full financial advice so I trust things are in hand though I have a few questions more.  I also have insurance that requires me to have a full IR35 compliance review and signed report (duly done).  I take my advice from them rather than hearsay.


This post, to be honest, apart from a friend a couple of weeks ago is the only time I even heard about changes -but my friend in my opinion is on way more ropey ground on lots of things.


I have been advised things are a bit different from here, so I'm not panicking while I have things in writing, but I think I need to dig a bit more.


For me there is no work in UK -when the oil market crashed I was out of work for so long I was penniless (before anyone asks: no you can't scrub toilets if you have a degree, I tried for long enough to pay the bills!!).


So I lost everything before but back in work.  I just got some cash in my account this past 6 months and been hit with tax!  So I'm back down a good bit.  Now I'm told there's more tax...


I fully expect to be screwed again whatever.  I have been fully shafted my entire career looking back so far!


Rich

Im not certain how the changes would affect you working abroad. However, Id be pushing your accountant for an analysis of whether you are affected or not.

What's important to note is that there isnt much changing with IR35 compared to previous years. The major change is who now makes the inside \ outside determination.
It used to be the contractor made the decision but that is no longer the case. Already in the Public Sector, from 6 April 2020, in the Private Sector, it will now be the 'fee payer' who is responsible for making the decision and, no longer the contractor's. Fee payer means the client not the agency.

The fee payer will now be liable for all tax and penalties should it be determined at a later date, their outside determination was not correct. As HMRC frequently launch investigations years after a contractor has left, many private sector companies are taking the view it is not worth the risk of a retrospective investigation so are refusing to take on limited co contractorsso offering perm, FTC or umbrella engagements. While HMRC undertake the initial assessment, these can be appealled to an independent tribunal but again, these are frequently years down the line.
There are some exceptions to IR35, for example a company that employs less than 50 people, T\O less than £10m. Working and being paid abroad may be another, I dont know.

EDIT, having had a quick look on CUK, it appears even if you work abroad and are paid into your ltd co, you might still need to consider IR35 implications.

[RST]

Some good news circulating over IR35 this week!  It doesn't affect me as I work abroad but some folks are saying it's at least a reprieve for them at least a year while we get through the mess at the moment anyway.  Some guys I know have had their contracts changed back on hearing this the past week.

Rich

[gingyer]

Yes, I got it confirmed this morning I will be carrying on as is.


Now I’m not a cynical person but the House of Lords committee just tore HMRC apart on this
Again due to them basically being utterly ignorant and incompetent on this issue. then a few hours later due to the Coronavirus epidemic it’s being delayed for another year.


At least it give us a chance to make the HMRC and government wake up to what they are doing
And the parasites and vultures hovering  to steal off peoples earnings