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[zooma]

Back in February this year when I was contemplating taking on this restoration, I did ask if anyone had an unbuilt kit or a part built Rapier kit they would like to sell as I would rather build a new Rapier, or finish an uncompleted kit than spending a lot of time working with this fuel soaked, badly built and subsequently "butchered" example.  Sadly I was not able to find a new or part-built kit, and nobody had a Rapier (in any condition) to sell,  so I took a deep breath and got stuck into this restoration project.


After straightening the hull and guessing at the shapes of the missing bulkhead tops and cabin window shapes etc, I have ended-up with a model that I am very pleased with that "looks like" a Rapier, and it performs far better than I had expected it to.  It actually looks really good on the water and has attracted many favourable comments from people who have seen it on our club lake.


It was certainly worth all of the hours spent chopping out and replacing the fuel soaked and twisted wood and replacing it with nice new (and clean!) wood -  but only due to the Covid lock-down.  If we were in "normal" times I doubt that I would have bothered as it has taken a lot of hours that could have been better used (perhaps?) making something new  - and in less time too!


Anyway, fast forward and we are now in September.......and I have just found and bought an original un-started Rapier kit that has a plan and the building handbook as well.


The box looks like it has some water stains on the top that may well suggest being stored in a loft (or similar place) from new, so there is the possibility that some of the wood inside could be warped too, but at least I will have a set of new bulkhead shapes (if they are all there!)  -  something I have never seen before!


As long as all of the shapes are there (with no parts missing!) I can copy them onto new wood and keep them for posterity.  I will also be able to build a Rapier from new wood and see how close my restoration is to the real thing......and of course I can fit a prop shaft that is the length suggested in the building instructions and fit a rudder in the suggested position too!

[ChrisF]

That's a good find Bob. Sod's law that one comes along when you have put all that time and effort into refurbishing the other one!

Chris

[zooma]

I have had a search on eBay asking for an alert if anything with the name "Rapier" in any of the various model boat sections should come up since February this year - and this was the first one that I received in all that time!


All of the notifications that I had until then was for die cast models of the Sunbeam Rapier and spare parts for the full sized car - but nothing for a Rapier model boat!



The seller of this kit rejected my offer buy it after I clicked on the "buy it now" button,  so I placed a bid and waited - and ended up winning it for less than I was prepared to pay in the first place!  Good result!


The kit has not arrived yet so I need to wait and see just how good or complete that it turns out to be, but I am hopeful that it will be OK and in any case it will give me far more information that I had when I was restoring my Rapier and the chance to build a new one for myself.


My plan for this kit is to copy everything to keep as a permanent reference, cut my own parts from new wood, and then sell the complete original kit to somebody that may like to have it - either to do the same with, or to keep is as a collectors item.


Hopefully this would help to keep this classic (and becoming rare) model boat design alive and with a bit of luck the next owner of the kit would do the same and help to proliferate the design for future generations to be able to see.


Stay safe!

[zooma]

We have returned home to find that the "new to me" Rapier kit had been delivered.


The kit was well packaged and so travelled well in the post.


When I took the kit box out I could see that one long side of the box still had the un-opened original brown paper tape along it and the box had been opened only along the opposite long side.

Inside the plans, building instruction and LesRo compliments slip look like they have never been touched and the brown paper envelope that held the brass nails was opened for the first time by me, so that had not been opened either.


As it was late when I opened the kit I have not had time to check that everything is there, but the first impression is that the kit is absolutely genuine and the grade of wood used is very good too so I am very pleased with my eBay purchase so far.


The bulkheads I checked at random are also fairly flat and the keel does not lay quite flat on the bench, but being 4mm it will conform to shape readily enough when the doublers are fitted and the self-jigging construction starts to form.  To put it into perspective, my SLEC wood delivery was also delivered when I was away and as I put the new wood onto the storage shelfs I could see that it was more bowed than the keel (!) so if I were to cut a new keel it could not be any better than the one in the box


I am off to the workshop (shed) now to take a longer look and to check to see if everything is there, but the water stained box lid label that caused me some initial concern would appear to be the only thing that did get damp and this has not penetrated the box or affected the wood.


All good news so far - I think I would like to find out where to buy a suitable ball raced prop shaft (preferably M5) as I have never used one before and would like to give one a try to see if they work any better, are more efficient, and are more likely to prevent "water creep" up the shaft.  As far as durability goes, I doubt this  could be improved on as I have never worn a standard shaft out yet ( but they are always well maintained and greased).

[ChrisF]

Bob

As I said a good find and great that the contents are so good.

The ball-raced prop shafts I use are the Raboesch Maintenance Free rated to 15k. revs ones which are nicely made. I get mine from Cornwall Model Boats.

Chris

[zooma]

Thanks Chris,


Thats some good info - I will take a look to see if they have one in stock to fit the Swordsman.


I have just checked the contents of the Rapier kit and everything is present and correct  - and as a bonus -  found a new 16" prop shaft in amongst the strip wood too!


Although I will specify an M5 shaft for my new build Rapier, I am still happy with this bonus find as I can adjust the length and use it for something else - so it will get used!


Overall, I am very happy with this old Rapier kit that dates from the mid 60's and could easily be 55 years old!


I am tempted to make a copy of every part as it could be very helpful to anyone else that may fancy the pleasure of building and owning one of these superb model boats.


Bob.

[canabus]

Hi Chris and Zooma

I have backup some of my boat plans as PDF onto memory sticks.
Like the Swordsman and Sea Hornet.
I had the Sea Hornet reprinted at 25% larger, but it's as far as I got with it.
Other projects have got in the way.

Harry

[zooma]

Bob

As I said a good find and great that the contents are so good.

The ball-raced prop shafts I use are the Raboesch Maintenance Free rated to 15k. revs ones which are nicely made. I get mine from Cornwall Model Boats.

Chris

I just checked the Cornwall Model Boats site and I see that all of the Raboesch prop shafts named 'Maintenance Free" including the bushed standard shafts as well as the ball raced versions - and they are expensive too!


Harry found his ball raced prop shaft on Banggood and I am sure they would be better value (not so sure about the quality  - perhaps?) but I have been searching their site today and unfortuately I can't find any ball-raced prop shafts on their site, so I may have to splash-out on a Raboesch ......

[ChrisF]

They are quite expensive but the way I look at it is that they only make up a small percentage of the overall cost of the boat and I like not having to lubricate them!

Chris

[zooma]

I just checked the length of my "freebie" 16" M4 shaft against the plan and I think it is an inch too long, so I will start to look for an M5 15" shaft (about 380mm) and see what I can find.


I don't think I am usually too "skimpy" on prop shaft lengths, but a shorter length will give less mass to turn, and the lower I can mount the motor the better (too long a shaft will raise the height of the motor in the hull) so I will double check the plans again ( check twice - buy once) and make sure before ordering a new shaft.

[zooma]

When I bought my used Javelin, I mentioned that it came with some "oddments" that included a small selection of red nylon propellers from the same time period as the boat - probably late 1960's - 1970's?


I seem to remember (back in the day) that there used to be two types of "Radio Active" nylon propeller available, and they were colour coded by being moulded in black and red nylon. Again, (if I remember correctly) the red ones were supposed to be the stronger and cost a little more, and is why we all used them on our ic powered boats at the time.


Having remembered this I thought I would try one of these props on the Rapier last weekend and fitted a red S50 to see if I could notice any difference in performance.


To my surprise the boat did not run as well as it has been running - even when compared with the "same size" S50 prop of the currently available black coloured type!


At one stage the boat slowed down so I brought it in and found a plastic chocolate bar wrapper tangled around the prop (and the motor felt hot for the first time too!), so I removed the plastic wrapper and put the boat back in the water to allow the water cooling system to bring the motor back down to its usual "cool" running temperature, which it achieved within a few seconds of running.


Having checked everything was OK (free running shaft etc) I fitting a freshly changed LiPo and set off for another run - and then repeated this again with another freshly charged LiPo, but every time the performance was not quite as "sparkling" as it had been with the current type black props of the same size.


Maybe these old red props are not as good as we used to think they were?, but the results were definitely not what I expected to see as I did not think that I would be able to see any difference between the two types whatsoever.

[zooma]

My restored Rapier is still running very well and attracting more attention than a kit built cabin cruiser would usually do.


Last weekend a "new to me" club member correctly identified it as a LesRo Rapier and told me that he had a Rapier at home that was in need of a little attention - something he had been meaning to get around to doing for years!


He said that my Rapier had inspired him to dig his out and get it finished and back on the water again. I hope he does as it will be nice to compare my restoration with an original and to see how my new cabin front screen compares with the LesRo shape that I decided not to copy as I did not like the kit "cockpit" screen assembly.


It will also be good to see how it runs alongside mine as his has the correct length prop shaft and rudder position.  Mine is shorter and has the rudder further in from the stern due to copying what was installed in my hull (before I got hold of a copy of the plan and realised that it was not "correct").


Recently, I noticed that after my first run each time, I would find a little water inside the engine bay, but I have not been able to trace the source of the leak.  It is not much of a leak and after I dry it out it does not return again with any more runs that are made on the same day - but when I return to the lake a week later, the same process starts agin!


My new "Rapier owning colleague" suggested that it could be a small hairline crack that would let water in when the hull was dry, but would then swell-up and "self-seal" for as long as the wood was wet.


After checking the hull I did find a small hairline crack immediately under the motor mount area of the hull, so this theory sounds about right!  I have opened up this hairline crack slightly using a fine scriber and let some very thin super-glue run into the crack and once dry the very small groove that I scribed into the hull was filled with some Isopon P38 filler.


When I get back I will gently smooth down this very small filled patch and see if it stays water-tight during its for run this weekend. Hopefully it will work, and if it does I will get some paint on it next week!

[zooma]

The repair on the small split between the keel and edge of the lower skin has worked and despite my best efforts to give it some serious pain today the repair has held firm.
The problem with restoring old boats like this if they have an unknown but dubious history is that the only thing you can have any confidence in, is the bits that you have done for yourself.
With the glues used in the original kit build being unknown and possibly 50 years old (!), and the boat now possibly being driven faster than it did when it was a lot younger - and every week - small failures this this will happen from time to time - especially as the building instructions at the time actually suggested the use of balsa wood adhesive !
As far as the repair goes, I used a very thin super glue that was developed for sticking tyres on large scale racing cars. This glue is so thin that it can wick it’s way into any small crack and in this case it has worked well.

[Schipio]

Have really enjoyed reading this post. I inherited a full Rapier kit a couple of years ago in it’s original box. The build hadn’t been started and so I have been trying to find time this year to put the model together. I am getting there and this post is being really helpful. Thanks

[zooma]

Have really enjoyed reading this post. I inherited a full Rapier kit a couple of years ago in it’s original box. The build hadn’t been started and so I have been trying to find time this year to put the model together. I am getting there and this post is being really helpful. Thanks

Thanks Schipio, and welcome to the small band of current Rapier owners 


I restored this hull during the first lock-down and I have been running it almost every week since then - mostly at high speed and enjoying the fast turns that it can make.


During this second lock-down I thought that I probably owed the boat a little TLC, so I have removed the motor and shaft inner to give everything I can see "a good coat of looking at"!


When I re-built the hull I bought a new 5mm stainless steel inner shaft to replace the old 2BA original as I wanted a slightly longer inner shaft (with a plain end) to fit my revised motor installation, but when it arrived I was surprised to see that it would not push into the old shaft bearings.


I knew that any 2BA prop would fit any M5 shaft,  but I had not realised that the outer shaft diameter of the newer M5 shaft would actually be bigger in diameter than the old 2BA shaft!


By now I had already re-fitted the old tube back into the hull, and having made a good secure job of it I was doubtful that it would be possible to remove it again without causing a lot of damage, so using the old inner shaft as a "punch" I tapped out the old bearings.


Now some of these old 2BA prop shafts came with a thicker brass outer tube than can be bought these days, so fitting an M5 bearing from a current shaft was not an option - so I drilled out the old bearings with a 5mm drill in a hand held electric drill !  Yes I am ashamed about doing that when I could have put it in a lathe and reamed it out like a proper engineer would have done - and it has been bothering me ever since!


Anyway (to my immense relief), the shaft shows no sign of any wear, so I gratefully re-greased it and put it back into the tube, but the boat had been running a little noisy so having checked again that the motor to shaft alignment was still OK, and I am reinforcing the motor mounting plate as I think that perhaps it was resonating and causing the sound of the boat to be a little louder than I expected it to be.


When I have finished this I will check everything else over and see if i can do anything to improve it or strengthen it (if needed) before taking it back out onto the water to give is another thrashing 

[tonyH]

Motor mount/plate reinforcement.

[zooma]

I have never been "convinced" about the colour scheme of my Rapier, and I am still not sure what colours to paint it.

The red, white, and black paint scheme it is currently wearing looks very distinctive (some would say loud!), but the black painted superstructure looses some of its visible shape when running in certain lighting conditions, so I am thinking that perhaps a lighter colour for the super-structure would look better and be more visible when it is on the water?

The inside of the hull is also still wearing the grey undercoat that I put on it as I was re-building it, so todayI bought some light grey gloss paint (Dulux Gloss Chick Shadow).  ....or at least I hope it is a light grey gloss.  Some of the colour prints in the Deluxe Colour booklet look a bit different in some lighting conditions - but I have bought the paint now so "on it goes".

Once the paint has dried I will replace the Turnigy 3648-1450 out-runner motor with a new Surpass 3674-2250KV in-runner to get some comparisons of power and duration before deciding whether of not it is suitable to use in the Swordsman I am currently building. 

I can't buy another Turnigy 3648-1450 (my motor of choice for the Swordsman) so I am looking for alternatives and a good place to test them is in the Rapier as the Turnigy gives a very impressive performance in this hull and so I will soon see if another motor can match it, or perhaps - even "surpass" it  .

Testing the new motor in the Rapier will be good because I know how well the Turnigy out-runner goes in it, and if the Surpass in-runner works as well in this hull I know it will be good in the Swordsman too.

None of this will help my choice of colours for the outside of the Rapier - but as least I will have done something to help towards it as although it has had plenty of use already this year, it is still un-finished as far as a final paint, windows, and accessories are concerned - never mind having a name yet!

Bob.

[Schipio]

Thanks for the update Bob.
I am still in the process of adding the side skins and decks to me Lesro Rapier. Then I too will have to decide on paint colour.
I will let you know how I get on.


David

[zooma]

My first look at fitting the Surpass in-runner motor shows that it will drop perfectly into the alloy water-cooled motor mount and having the same 5mm motor shaft my existing coupling can be used as well.


This Surpass has quite a long motor case compared to the out-runner that I have been using and I am temped to make a small rear cradle to slide under the rear of the motor can to take some of the weight off of the alloy motor mount.


Harry tells me that he tested a 3674-1900KV in a Spearfish on 4S and it was fast, so my 3674-2250KV could be quite a beast!

[madwelshman]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after the first sea trials with the new motor.
I haven't decided what to fit in the Sea Rover, Sea Commander and small Huntsman yet and they're all 29" - 36"


Will

[zooma]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after the first sea trials with the new motor.
I haven't decided what to fit in the Sea Rover, Sea Commander and small Huntsman yet and they're all 29" - 36"


Will

Hi Will,

I like to see white water and enjoy driving my powerboats quickly (fast) so my power requirements and yours may well be different.

The power that I put into my boats is also relevant to the area that I intend to run them in - and that currently is most often on the Southport Model Boat Club lake, so I don't need as much power as I would need if I were to run on a bigger expanse of water to give me the performance I am happy with.

One solution is to run my boats on 2 LiPo cells, and if I get the performance that I am happy with I know that if I run the same motor on 3 and 4 LiPo cells it will give me a stronger performance if I run on more open water.

This assumes that I specify the motor and ESC to be able to cope with the extra cells in the first place, and I also check to see if I should reduce the size of the prop to avoid over-heating when running at higher revs on more cells.

This works well for me, and the two cell set-up gives longer run times too, but this is relevant as going fast is a power-hungry activity.  My TID tug will run nicely at slightly over scale speed all day on a single charge on my 6 volt dry cell, and almost all day with a little more power on a 12 volt dry cell, whereas my Rapier delvers a very impressive speed on 2 LiPo cells but only averages 11 minutes on a 5600mah 65C cell.

If you check the pictures shown on this thread you will see that I have made a battery holder to take two LiPo cells side by side.  I use this as it gives a good balance to the boat and although I only run one cell as a time it is quick and easy to change the XT90 battery connection over from the exhausted to the freshly charged cell when the speed starts to drop (or the ESC gives me the stop/start warning signal).

I like the idea of coming in after 11 minutes or so of high speed running as it is a nice run time and not too long as the concentration levels needed to keep the boat safe in a restricted area can also be re-freshed as the new battery is connected.  After two runs, both batteries can be changed for a freshly charged pair in about one minute and this gives another "forced break" that suites my perfectly.

The option of joining the two cells via a suitable "Y" lead is also very quick and easy.  Depending on your requirements this can be done "in series" or "in parallel" - 4 cell speed and power, or a double capacity to give longer run times.


Bob.

[zooma]

Late yesterday afternoon after we came back from a walk in the hills I ventured into my workshop (shed) and decided to get on and paint the engine bay of the Rapier so that when it has dried I can fit the Surpass 3674-2250KV motor to see how it performs when compared with the Turnigy 3648-1450 motor that I have been using until now.


My new tin of Dulux Gloss paint (suitable for wood and metal - it says on the tin) was opened and stirred well after I had read the advice printed on the tin. I was a little disappointed to see that the brush could be cleaned in water because although this is very handy and means that the paint has a low odour, my previous experience with any "water clean-up" paint has not been as good as the more traditional spirit based paint.


The paint was nice and thick, which for this particular job of painting the inside of an old boat could be a positive.  The engine bay had recently had the motor mount reinforced to try and reduce the motor sound levels  that I believe to be a little on the noisy side and is probably caused by resonance as the mount itself it is as solid as a rock?


The inside of the boat has already been painted with a traditional (sprit based) grey undercoat so the conditions for this grey top coat to cover should have been ideal, but in some areas the paint looked like it had some small bubbles in it and when brushed-out they returned a few second later.


When the paint drys it will need a second coat so I will gently sand these areas again where the paint has failed to cover nicely, but I am sure that I would not have had this problem if the paint was the spirit based type.


When we have finally received the new vaccine and I can get out and about again, I will see what "spirit based" gloss paints are still available as this is not the first time that "domestic" paint that has a water-based "clean-up" has failed to impress.

[tonyH]

If in doubt, generally Dulux Trade Exterior Gloss paints (Builders Merchant) are spirit base while "normal" Dulux Exterior Gloss (Hardware Shops) are water based.
It's the word Trade on the tin that's important.
Also, watch out for other Akzo paints such as Hammerite, since they've changed solvents and it's iffy using old H solvent to clean new H paint off the brush.

[zooma]

If in doubt, generally Dulux Trade Exterior Gloss paints (Builders Merchant) are spirit base while "normal" Dulux Exterior Gloss (Hardware Shops) are water based.
It's the word Trade on the tin that's important.
Also, watch out for other Akzo paints such as Hammerite, since they've changed solvents and it's iffy using old H solvent to clean new H paint off the brush.

Thanks Tony,


I will check the tin before I buy any new "domestic" paint and avoid any that have a water-based clean-up. 


Bob.

[zooma]

Having expressed my general disappointment about these water clean-up paints, I did venture out into my fridge (workshop/shed) this afternoon and was surprised to find that this paint was completely dry - now that was a surprise in this very cold weather - as was the lack of any paint smells!


Freshly encouraged, I removed the rudder (again) and the water cooling tubes (not the outlet tube), the ESC and steering servo and gave the other two hull bays a first coat of gloss paint and the engine bay its second coat of pale grey gloss (Dulux Gloss Chick Shadow).


The water outlet tube was such an awkward and time consuming *.**.*.* to fit, I have decided that it can stay and risk getting some paint splashes on it  -  they may well wipe off of the tubing OK in any case!


Painting the inside of the hull is not a job that I enjoy.  Trying to get the paint into all of the small corners where it is most needed is a problem, so I will be cutting the handle down on at least one paint brush so I can manoeuvre it around inside the hull a little easier inside the various compartments when I have to fill-in any little areas that I could not reach with a regular length paint brush.


I did think about air-brushing the inside of the hull, but again the restricted space would make this awkward too!  A small exploding paint bomb would be a good idea - if it could be trusted to cover everything reasonably well inside the hull