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[Stuw]

Before a previous owner coated the hull with filler paste, the bottom had been sanded completely flat so the square angled corners of the rubbing strakes has been removed and the some of the width has been sanded away too.

The lower chine strakes need to be full width and sharp edged to give the best performance and the slight angle change from the bottom skin is important too - and this has been sanded away.

I may start by sanding the remains of the rubbing strakes away so the joint between the side skins and bottom skins are exposed.  The strakes need to be replaced in any case, and this will expose the edge of the skins so I can see how thick the filler paste coating is (at least at the sides).

After that I will attack the bottom skin covering first so I can find out what the filler paste is hiding, make the repair, fit new rubbing strakes, and then I can fit the three bottom strakes on each side of the bottom skin........which is where all this started!

Wow that’s a lot of work to come! Someone gone mad with an orbital sander perhaps! You will be busy... I wonder if yours may have had strakes that have also been sanded away at the same time?

[tonyH]

BEWARE of the silicone if in a critical area! Sometimes it comes off clean without leaving a film but sometimes it will leave some of the solvent in the wood and it can be almost impossible to stick anything on to it.
Good LuckTony

[Stuw]

Thanks Tony! Oops. Fingers crossed it’s just an area for paint. See what happens....

[zooma]

I am looking at what to do with my strakes. I may keep them as they are and fill them or bite the bullet and remove them and perhaps take up your very kind offer Bob of assisting with preparing the wood.

My construction technique decades ago on my Javelin was to nail the strakes in situ with little brass nails. Not as subtle as just temporarily tacking them as you once did Bob!


Questions:


1. Can I use aliphatic wood glue to fill these initially or is P38 ok/ better?


2. I plan to strip the hull back to the ply before repainting etc. Would anyone just primer paint onto this or would you put something else first eg varnish?


My boat doesn’t have any Glassfibre coating on it as I’ve read many do. I don’t want to go down this route as the Javelin didn’t need it in my opinion. Or am I wrong? I prefer to keep my Javelin as conventional and old school in build techniques as possible. Apart from hitec glues, fillers and paints and electronics of course!

Hi Stuw,

When I use brass nails these days I tend to drive them in part way, and then chop the head off before driving them down flush to the surface as this stops the heads showing through at a later date but keeps the mechanical fix in place.

Your questions:

1.  I would use P38 to fill those small nail holes.

2.  If you strip the hull right back to bare wood you can start again with a first coat of wood primer if it needs it, if not then undercoat and sand between coats until the surface is smooth and ready for the top coat.

Old school is good!  You are right - classic boats never had the "luxury" of cloth coatings etc and I prefer to restore them using traditional finishing methods .ie wood primer, as many under coats as it needs to give a smooth surface (sanding between coats) ready for the final colour top coat.

Your boat has survived 25 years without having a cloth coating and was run with a vibrating messy glow engine (I love my glow engines - but they are messy).

Your new electric motor will give a smooth power delivery and it will be clean, so your hull will have a little less stress to cope with and should see another 25 years or more with a conventional finish that can be replaced as often as you like (or fancy a colour change).

The inside of the hull is another matter.  I am more than happy to use glass fibre and matting to reinforce and armour any joints that are visible and to reinforce the hull.  I have recently tried epoxy for this same job - but to be honest, if I can do the job outside to stop the fumes filling my shed I prefer to use glass fibre as it will cure in almost any temperature and I find it works better for me.

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.

[Stuw]

Brilliant. Thanks Bob. Hadn’t thought of chopping off the nail heads! Thanks for your advice. Don’t want to find out the hard way and want to do it as well as I possibly can with my skill set.


Yep messy and vibrating IC somewhat different to brushless power!

[ChrisF]

Blooming heck, I think I'll stick with new builds!

Chris

[zooma]

Blooming heck, I think I'll stick with new builds!

Chris

Very wise Chris.


.....but one day, you may come across a sad looking boat that grabs your attention and you end up rescuing it and bringing it back to life.

If/when you do, you will experience the joy (?) of restoring something that you never built, and it may not have been put together in the way that you would have done it.

Sometimes you will be surprised at how badly it was thrown together, and sometimes you can see that it was beautifully built but had suffered another owner since who abused it and wrecked it.

Sometimes the boats will just have been well used and enjoyed over a number of years but were then discarded and forgotten about for many years until rediscovered in a loft,  or a house clearance had it put on eBay to be disposed of.

It you do take on a restoration, you will (by necessity) develop a whole new set of different skills and ways of working or "making good" (and problem solving), and they will all bring a sense of satisfaction that is different to the pride that you may experience with a carefully assembled new build.

Beware............restoring and rescuing classic old model boats can become addictive..............

[Stuw]

I thought it would be easier to rejuvenate my old boat than build a new one. In some ways it is but as you say it involves sometimes a different set of techniques and approach. At least in my case I shouldn’t find any hidden gems below the paintwork?!


I am now set on keeping the shape of my Javelin as conventional and to plan as possible. If all goes well I may try to get hold of an old Rapier/Javelin to mess about with somewhat.

[zooma]

I thought it would be easier to rejuvenate my old boat than build a new one. In some ways it is but as you say it involves sometimes a different set of techniques and approach. At least in my case I shouldn’t find any hidden gems below the paintwork?!


I am now set on keeping the shape of my Javelin as conventional and to plan as possible. If all goes well I may try to get hold of an old Rapier/Javelin to mess about with somewhat.

Good News - well done Stuw!

I did mention earlier that I thought you were hooked..... and you will not go too far wrong if you can find a Rapier or another Javelin/Streaker to restore.

They are good solid designs that perform far better than they should - especially the Rapier.  Seeing an old cabin cruiser going fast enough to worry the "plastic fantastic" brigade always makes me smile.

The Javelin/Streaker look fast.....and they are!

Pretty impressive for Classic 1960's designs I would say 

Bob.

[tonyH]

You get what you get!

[Stuw]

Slow and steady work continues. My new propshaft and powerflex coupling arrived. Including the X50 props which look rather menacing! I must have had an S50? I also purchased an X40 which I shall start with.


Playing with motor location as low as possible and about a 10 degree angle from horizontal seems typical?


Decided to remove the old ic motor mount which was about 150g of 6.5mm ply. It was in the way and allowed me to inspect the skin and keel underneath. The red highlighted area in photo 3 shows where glowfuel has soaked on/in (even though wood was varnished). It seems sturdy just need to remove the stickiness before able to bond to it I imagine?


I also removed the aft portion of the motor mount that was a bracing rib? The ply was very sticky and damaged. I will create a couple of new ones to form part of my new motor mount base.


Ive been looking at using Z poxy finishing resin to perhaps coat over this area to seal and be able to bond to it?


Now the chicken or egg scenario. Do I fix the propshaft first then sort the motor mount or vice versa? Does it matter as long as I keep the rigid coupling in place. Decisions, decisions!


Still slowly removing the old sticky foil tape and cleaning up. I plan to fill the square hole in the bulkhead as well to give more rigidity back to it. It was used to place my glowfuel tank into the centre section as the cockpit roof wasn’t removable. It will be soon.


Jobs to do:


- Prep hull outside and inside for painting
- Fabricate motor mount base, servo and ESC mounts
- Bond rudder post, water scoop and propshaft and motor in
- create new forward, aft and mid hatches

[zooma]

Nice progress Stuw.


Definitely get the prop shaft fitted in the hull first before attempting to fit the motor and mount.


Once the shaft is in place and set solid you can align everything with it.


I rough-up the outside areas of the shaft tube where it passes thorough the hull and bulkhead and then use slow setting epoxy to bond it into place.


Cover these areas with masking tape to keep the epoxy in place as it cures - it may seem fairly solid but it does move a little as it sets and you want to keep it around the shaft and not have it dripping away from the joint.


Slow setting epoxy is much better than the fast stuff as it gives you time to work and is also durable when it has set.  I use slow setting Araldite - it used to be called 24hour Araldite - I will check the name for you if you like - but as far as I know Araldite only make one slow setting type.


Other makes of epoxy are available, but 24 hour Araldite has never let me down on my boats or repairs made to rifle stocks and when assembling anatomical pistol grips - its really good stuff!


Making sure that you have good clearance for an X50 prop is a good idea.


My guess is that you may find a S50 or an X45 prop will work well with your motor in the Javelin hull if you are running it on 2 cells and if/when you use 3 cells  you may need to drop it a size to an S45 or an X40 to get the best result and allow the motor to spin freely without over-heating.


You won't know for sure until you get the boat in the water and running, but I use this size range on my Rapier (same hull) so you are in with aa chance.


Bob.

[Stuw]

Thanks Bob. I’ve got some Devcon 2 ton epoxy that sets in 30 mins and cures in about 12 apparently?


Also what do you reckon for my slightly greasy ply skin on the inside. Will epoxy bond to this for my motor mount or should I run some Z poxy finishing resin over the engine bay?


Thanks for your helpful input.

[derekwarner]

If the hull ply surface you indicate in RED rectangles is fuel/oil-soaked, the Pacer Technologies Z-Poxy people suggest not to attempt to lay/pour their product  over such surfaces


It's all about the integrity of the bond........after you lay it, you cannot see the result......Devon will bond to the Z-Poxy, however the bond to the parent material would always be questionable


Now is the time to decide.......one option is to cut out the questionable ply sections.......could be the best long term solution

Derek

[zooma]

Thanks Bob. I’ve got some Devcon 2 ton epoxy that sets in 30 mins and cures in about 12 apparently?


Also what do you reckon for my slightly greasy ply skin on the inside. Will epoxy bond to this for my motor mount or should I run some Z poxy finishing resin over the engine bay?


Thanks for your helpful input.

Hi Stuw,

No epoxy (or poxy) of any type is going to adhere onto oily wood.

Even if the "bond" looks OK at the time,  the oil will migrate (push up through the wood) and get in-between the surface of the wood and the mating surface of the glue film and this will slowly but surely erode the bond until the motor mount is left "floating"on top .

We used to call this process "plasticiser migration".

Chopping out the sections of wood is also going to cause you some work so there are a couple of things you could try first..

Washing out the area with a strong detergent or degreasant will help. The sticky glue residue from your protective silver tape also needs removing completely with lighter fluid etc.

After you have de-greased the surface, and you replace the braces from your original motor mounts, try cutting them in thick plywood ( 1/2" or even 3/4").

Position them accurately inside your hull and draw around them before removing them and drawing the centre line of them onto the inside of the bottom skin.

Once you have the two centre lines marked you can check to see the position of your strakes and drill though the ply skin (making sure you miss them!). Using wide brass (or stainless) counter-sunk head screws you can insert them from underneath to supplement your potentially weak bond with a mechanical fix.   If the screws are too long - don't worry - grind them off until they are "flush" after the adhesive  (or glass fibre) has dried.

As these will never be removed you can use P38 to cover the heads over and when sanded they should become invisible. 

This "mechanical fixing" is to supplement the epoxy adhesive - not to replace it, so epoxy the engine mounting plate braces onto the bottom skin in the normal way. Use plenty of epoxy and allow it to form a fillet all around the engine mount braces - or use glass fibre resin and chopped fibre to bed them in with (P40).

When everything is fitted in place you may also be able to screw through the motor mounting plate from the top into the keel in one or two places to make the mounting to the hull as solid and long lasting as possible.


This should never move for the life of the boat!


Bob.

[Stuw]

If the hull ply surface you indicate in RED rectangles is fuel/oil-soaked, the Pacer Technologies Z-Poxy people suggest not to attempt to lay/pour their product  over such surfaces


It's all about the integrity of the bond........after you lay it, you cannot see the result......Devon will bond to the Z-Poxy, however the bond to the parent material would always be questionable


Now is the time to decide.......one option is to cut out the questionable ply sections.......could be the best long term solution

Derek

Thanks Derek. I thought it could be dodgy.

[Stuw]

Bob,


I shall give that a go. My new bracing spans the width of the hull from chine to chine over the keel. There will be one at each end of the motor mount plate. My base under the motor mount will also be wider and reach the skin at about 11cm width.


I have modelled them in cardboard to work out profiles but planned to use at least 6.5mm ply. I shall beef them up as you suggest. They will be bonded across better condition wood away from the keel. Will back up with screws. I’m avoiding cutting out the old skin at this stage. It would be the best solution but I’m not that brave yet!


Photo of card mock-up (only 1 mm card but will be thicker ply of course!)

[zooma]

Anyone interested in reading this LesRo Javelin thread may like to know that there is a build review of the LesRo Javelin kit featured in the December 1991 Marine Modelling.


There is also a nice picture of the beautifully finished review model too.


This is the only review of the LesRo Javelin that I have seen........but there could be others............?

[Stuw]

Here is a link mentioning the Javelin article in the info for Dec 91


https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-december-1991-issue.html

(Some mention of the Lesro Arrow in May 2002 as well)


https://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/marine-modelling-magazine-may_02_large.jpg.html



Having read your sister thread on the Rapier and seen your improved superstructure, am I alone in feeling the Javelin forward raised structure in front of the cockpit seems to be rather lacking? Is it supposed to be a cabin of sorts (like a basic version of a Fairey Huntsman) or just raised to give the boat a little shape? The Arrow forward deck flush gives more of a cigarette style powerboat feel.


I want to retain the classic Javelin design for mine but wasn’t sure whether to simulate some windows or hatches on the forward area? I’ve trawled Google images for inspiration but end up wanting to chop the structure down to be flush apart from a cockpit and rear engine bay vent hatch as is.

[zooma]

I am looking for a copy of that from Dec 1991 “Marine Modelling International” though from what I’ve retrieved from a back issue info search?


(Some mention of the Lesro Arrow in May 2002 as well)


Having read your sister thread on the Rapier and seen your improved superstructure, am I alone in feeling the Javelin forward raised structure in front of the cockpit seems to be rather lacking? Is it supposed to be a cabin of sorts (like a basic version of a Fairey Huntsman) or just raised to give the boat a little shape? The Arrow forward deck flush gives more of a cigarette style powerboat feel.


I want to retain the classic Javelin design for mine but wasn’t sure whether to simulate some windows or hatches on the forward area? I’ve trawled Google images for inspiration but end up wanting to chop the structure down to be flush apart from a cockpit and rear engine bay vent hatch as is.

They say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Stuw.

I really disliked the "gormless" looking wheelhouse windows of the Rapier and changed them to a shape that I preferred (although I realise that this may not be anybody else's "cup of tea") and when I loosely positioned the window frames back on my "new to me" Rapier 2  project (to show what they would have looked like before they got snapped off in the post) - my wife said "that looks nice"  !

Seeing the surprised look on my face she turned and looked at my restored Rapier 1 that was alongside it on the bench for comparison and then said.."but I like that one too" so I will never know for sure, but I think she may have preferred the original cabin front!

Yesterday I drew around the side of a Rapier cabin onto the back of a couple of taped together cereal packets.  I had previously mentioned the possibility of adding a cabin to my Javelin and so I was just experimenting to see if I could come up with a rather more up to date shape for a possible change.

My Javelin needs a lot of work (and I don't know what I will find hiding under all that filler paste yet) but if there is more boat than filler paste I may yet be tempted to covert it to a "Super Rapier".

Bob.

[Stuw]

Whilst I was thinking of chopping the structure off, you’re coming up with an alternative cabin! Would be good to see your ideas...


I’m awaiting a timber delivery from SLEC for my thicker engine mount ply supports.

[zooma]

Whilst I was thinking of chopping the structure off, you’re coming up with an alternative cabin! Would be good to see your ideas...


I’m awaiting a timber delivery from SLEC for my thicker engine mount ply supports.

Hi Stuw,

I drew around one of the cabin sides from the unmade Rapier kit (onto the back of the finest quality cereal packet) to get some idea about the size and bulkhead positions and the sketched out a new design.

Masking tape was employed to make a piece of card long enough to draw a full size cabin side onto so I will have a template ready to draw around and cut new sides from 4mm plywood...assuming I came up with something I liked the look of.

Whilst I wanted to retain the "wheelhouse" style of the classic Rapier layout, I also wanted to streamline it and make it look a little more up to date.

After 30 minutes or so of sketching I have come up with something that I like the look of and I think I will have a go at it and see how it works-out, but to keep the new design pure, the existing bulkheads are in the wrong place.

I will find a way to accommodate the bulkheads  where they are (as this is after-all only a conversion for an existing hull) but if the deign looks really good I may end-up making an all new model that is based on this successful LesRo pointed 39" hull shape.

Once I have cut the cabin side out the design will evolve as I progress but it will include a re-styled front for the lower cabin and wheelhouse and will retain the rear cabin within the new outline.

I hope this will be a "sharp-edge" design as all the classic model boats that I like seem to have names like Swordsman/Rapier etc, so I am going to call this design "The Blade". 

If it works out OK I will start a build thread of the same name and keep a photo-log of the progress from a cereal packet sketch to a finished model.

Apart from including some over-sized home made strakes, the hull shape is not likely to change very much as I am so impressed with the performance of the Rapier I wouldn't want to change anything significant about it.......although I may re-style the transom depending on how things unfold.

If it is a disaster then I will start again as I really like the Rapier but I would like to imagine how a boat-builder would have evolved the concept (if it were a real full sized boat) .........and graft it onto my Javelin - which is where this idea was initially conceived.

Enjoy your weekend!

Bob.

[Stuw]

Look forward to the Blade thread! Out of interest is your Javelin hull damaged at all by glow fuel or was it always electric perhaps?


I thought your Rapier paint scheme early on with white and black only was striking!


Have a good one,


Stu

[zooma]

Look forward to the Blade thread! Out of interest is your Javelin hull damaged at all by glow fuel or was it always electric perhaps?


I thought your Rapier paint scheme early on with white and black only was striking!


Have a good one,


Stu

My Javelin was originally glow engine powered - the welded steel motor mount was still in it when I bought it!

I am going to chop out a couple of cabin sides for The Blade so I can see if I can accommodate the Rapier kit bulkhead positions.

If not I will have to have a re-think (and a re-style).

The Blade (if all goes well) will have a similar black and white paint scheme to the "undercoat scheme" I used on the Rapier during the trial runs.

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob.

[tonyH]

New Zooma Gin Palace?