Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Patternmaker on November 13, 2009, 01:39:16 pm
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Hi all, what are your views on fireworks, especially pet owners. This time of year is absolute purgatory for me with our Cocker Spaniel Sophie who is terrified, they seem to get louder each year, start earlier and go on for longer, with the economic climate as it is I wonder where they get the money to buy them
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I think they should only be available to qualified people for organised displays. I'm a pet owner too and also a retained firefighter, I've seen what damage they can cause in the wrong hands. People don't realise how dangerous they can be. I like to watch the displays, but I don't like them being thrown about by kids and not treated with some respect. My two dogs and cat aren't great fans of them either. Dave. :police:
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We have had fireworks since a week before Guy Fawkes night and every night since.
We know that they will carry on into the new year.
I have been in touch with my local councillor who contacted our M.P. Alan Whitehead. Our MP has asked our local councillor to do a survey of as many affected parties as possible, ie police, fire brigade, A&E departments, RSPCA, residents associations etc with a view of bringing up in Parliament our suggestions of banning firework sales and only allowing licensed displays.
Now all we need is for more people to stop moaning about the problem and do something about it.
How many people would want to put up with a 140 pound German Shepherd trying to destroy their house while trying to find a place away from the noise.
You cant keep your dog sedated for two months.
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Our cocker's not bothered at all by fireworks, in fact he's been to a display, with us, not on his own %%
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I have to say that I think there should only be organised displays, and fireworks should not be available to the general public. I have seen the damage and injury caused by fireworks. I spent a long time obtaining my pyrotechnics licence, and still have the utmost respect for these things. >>:-(
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aye aye there Dicky 'you cant keep a dog sedated for 2 months'
cant keep you quiet for 2 minutes %% %% that poor owld dorg
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What I read here scares me.
Since the 1960s we have attacked traditional family life, and have now developed for ourselves a world where the usual social pressures to behave with consideration to others have been gradually eroded until we end up with anti-social behaviour becoming the norm.
Then, instead of addressing the fundamental problem that we have created, we call for more central regulation of everybody's lives by a government body to address bad behavior by a minority. And this will cost money and employ more and more civil servants and regulators, all living of the taxes of the fewer and fewer people who are actually in productive work. And ratchet up another notch of acceptable state interference.
And we all know that, when a firework ban is put into effect, young hoodlums will still be able to import and throw illegal fireworks around with impunity - they will be impossible to catch, while the law-abiding middle-class farmer on a Yorkshire moor will be fined because he has an unregistered bonfire in a field, invites a few friends for a drink and gets arrested under the 'November Parties Celebrations Act 2011'...
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Dodgy Geezer what you must realise is that this is not the 1960's with the small fireworks of that era.
These mainly imported fireworks now have the potential to kill and maim like never before.
If you are happy to live with these things we will happily send all our little yobbos up to yours every night.
This is not big brother it is just that we get sick and tired of living in a place that resembles Iraq or Afghanistan for two months of the year.
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If you are happy to live with these things we will happily send all our little yobbos up to yours every night.
I don't know why you think I am happy with the situation, and feel the need to threaten me? Nothing I said suggests that I want to have dangerous fireworks thrown around.
I just said that that:
- the situation is indeed bad
- I believe your answer would not solve it
- I believe your answer would make things a lot worse in a different way
I think that the sooner people look for the root causes of problems, rather than calling for some more knee-jerk legislation the quicker these problems will be solved....
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Dear All,
I can see all sides of this, and, one way and another all are right in their own way. However.
One of the problems is that fireworks are available all year round nearly. Once upon a time - and it was not that long ago - they were only available a week before Nov. 5, and after that, that was that. None. The fireworks then obtainable were sufficient and the range perfectly acceptable.
True, there are louder ones now but they are less. Import and mfg. legislation brought in about 1.5 to 2 years ago limited the dec. levels, and this has made a great difference. The ground shaking explosions that were about for a few years prior to 2 years go are not available any more, and the use of any such detonations above the limit is now illegal. The UK Mfg licences/Excise & Import bodies have been very effective in dealing with this matter.
As to 'accidents' - which as we know no such thing exists... there always being a cause... it is inevitable that whatever the gnrl. populous do, they will always find a way of harming themselves with it. What is to be done...? Just for the sake of a number of idiots, why does the vast majority of sensible users have to be penalised and suffer. Ok, the solution is relatively easy... make the purchase of fireworks only available to those in excess of 25 or 30 years old, and anyone caught possessing/using fireworks below that age makes their parents or them liable to a £100 fine or 1 month detention. Since we live in such a ridiculous PC world these days, who would be brave enough to introduce such legislation???
Urban areas do indeed suffer I know, however, a relation who lives in Maidenhead has stated that this last two years have been very much better - their Labrador has suffered much in that past.
I am certainly definitely against the banning of fireworks whatever is said. It is a right that the population has possessed for a very long time, however, anything above and beyond what was available in the 1980's (say), could easily be withdrawn without causing trouble. The trouble is, people see these huge displays else where, and feel they must emulate as near as possible the loudness of what they have seen - indeed, the Keep-Up-With-The- Joneses' plays a significant factor in all this... 'who can make the loudest noise!.
So, at the end of the day, it boils down to availability and reasonableness. As to reasonableness, well, this is up to Govt. to set the rules back down to what they were in the 1980's or thereabouts. All these multiple mortars, etc. etc., are just a Mktg. thing that people have latched onto like the ridiculous and very organised mktg. Americanisation in GB of Haloween. Something which I find totally obscene... in as much that children think they must do it otherwise their friends think they are not 'cool'. How I detest that word... and how much the Mktg. people use it... and the people follow like lemmings...............!
To summarise. I feel sorry for people and animals in Urban/City areas that must suffer due to Govt. lack of control, in as much that the Police have their hands tied to do anything about it. As to other less populated areas, well, the problem is less. As to the idiots who missuse fireworks make them unobtainable or the enforced penalaties of possessing same a worth while deterrent. BUT, to ban them no, there are many out there who have respect for them and use them properly, and why should they be denied for the sake of the idiots and foolhardy?
Regards, Bernard
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Just a reminder of the firework Legislation laws introduced in 2004
Legislation has been introduced (see below) to help make fireworks safer to use and to tackle their deliberate misuse. It affects how fireworks are imported, sold and used, and places restrictions on possession.
It means that fireworks will be safer, less noisy and can only be let off at certain times. It also means that those misusing them to either damage property or injure will be able to be dealt with by the relevant authorities.
Fireworks will only be widely available during the weeks leading up to Bonfire Night and a few days before New Year's Eve, Diwali and Chinese New Year. For the rest of the year, you will only be able to buy fireworks from shops that are licensed to supply them.
Penalties
It is an offence under section 80 of the Explosives Act 1875 to throw or set off fireworks in any highway, street, thoroughfare or public place. The power to enforce this section of the Act rests with the police. Anyone found guilty is liable to pay a fine of up to £5,000 and can be imprisoned for up to six months. Penalty notices for disorder (on-the-spot fines) can also be issued for this offence, attracting the upper tier fine of £80.
In Regulations made under the Fireworks Act 2003, it is also an offence for the under 18s to possess fireworks in a public place and for anyone to let fireworks off during night hours (11pm to 7am). Police also have the power to issue penalty notices for disorder for these offences. Again, the offence attracts the upper tier fine of £80.
Under section 4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 it is an offence to cause any unnecessary suffering to any domestic or captive animals. The penalty on conviction is either imprisonment up to 51 weeks or a fine of up to £20,000 or both. Enforcement of this section of the Act rests with Trading Standards, the Police or the RSPCA as appropriate.
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Dear Patternmaker,
V.usefull info.. It remains just the full enforecement of the Law... in otherwords us to jump up and down about it.
Thanks again, useful info..
Regards, Bernard
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I think they should only be available to qualified people for organised displays.
So do I...
My pooch is terrified of them when alone, but if you keep your pet close by you and give it some fuss etc every now and then they won't mind the fireworks :-))
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In Regulations made under the Fireworks Act 2003, it is also an offence for the under 18s to possess fireworks in a public place and for anyone to let fireworks off during night hours (11pm to 7am). Police also have the power to issue penalty notices for disorder for these offences. Again, the offence attracts the upper tier fine of £80.
:o
In "Swallows and Amazons", Arthur Ransome's 1930 novel that inspired thousands to learn to sail and camp and generally live good wholesome lives, Nancy Blackett, aged about eleven, sets off a firework which leads to the entire story unfolding. Are you trying to tell me this would all be illegal and frowned upon in the 21st century?!
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Andy
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So do I...
My pooch is terrified of them when alone, but if you keep your pet close by you and give it some fuss etc every now and then they won't mind the fireworks :-))
What planet are you living on Andy. My dog is my constant companion and he's terrified of fireworks with or without me and when he's terrified he's dangerous.
Pattern maker most of your list of fireworks offenses are only enforceable if you have police on the streets. My son got beaten up by a gang and it took the police 4 days to come out, what chance do I have of getting them out to a bunch of yobbos, all of school age, throwing these bloomin great Chinese fireworks over peoples garden fences ?
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What planet are you living on Andy. My dog is my constant companion and he's terrified of fireworks with or without me and when he's terrified he's dangerous.
Pattern maker most of your list of fireworks offenses are only enforceable if you have police on the streets. My son got beaten up by a gang and it took the police 4 days to come out, what chance do I have of getting them out to a bunch of yobbos, all of school age, throwing these bloomin great Chinese fireworks over peoples garden fences ?
Richard I absolutely agree with you I have tried every conceivable thing to try and keep my dog pacified, but nothing works, those who's pets are not affected are very lucky.
The firework laws cannot be enforced for the very reason you stated
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Let's just ban everything and be done with it, do you really want to live in that world.... Lipos dangerous, lets ban them, people have injured themselves with power tools, remove them from sale, cars kill people let's ban those while we are at it. Fact is that people only seek to ban things that they feel are there purely for fun and serve, as they see it , no useful purpose . Make an annual list of the things that cause the most injuries over a year and ban them the next..... who wants to live in that world....
We have fireworks on sale in Sweden but they only go on "general" sale nearer the bigger occasions, New Year, Easter, Valborg (Swedish thing) and a couple of others. "Bangers" are supposedly not allowed but they find there way from Denmark. There is an age limit in place (can't remember what it is). I will admit that we do not have the start of the season as early as Bonfire Night but it will be with us soon and we wil be hearing fireworks at night.
Last New Years Eve the fireworks, all private, started about 23.45 in and around Helsingborg and continued unabated till 00.30, wonderful show.
As for our cat and dog, the cat we keep in but he doesn't care, goes into the garden when we fire our own but no further. The dog has never cared but then again she has been trained to ignore loud and sudden noises. Not special training just basic training with the sit, stay type of stuff that allows for a sound and stable dog in the face of sudden noises and/or sights, the same as our other dogs have been.
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So Ian you are now suggesting my dog is not trained ? You of course know my dog. >:-o
Yes the majority of people in our area do want them banned, you try 2-3 months of fireworks anytime day ( yes in daylight ) or night then see if you feel the same.
I dont want to ban them completely but would like to see only licensed displays by people who know what they are doing.
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Dear Dickie,
It just boils down to what I said before really... restrict the sale of such things to one week before Nov. 5th and that's that... restrict the intensity to a certain degree and that's that, restrict the purchace to a destinct age group and that's that, and restrict the intensity of the fireworks themselves and that's that. Just a proper balance is all that's required.
Regards, Bernard
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So Ian you are now suggesting my dog is not trained ? You of course know my dog. >:-o
I am suggesting that your dog is not trained to cope with sudden loud noises, you say yourself when he is terrified he is dangerous. My dog is not terrified as we have had fireworks at home and she has been trained to cope, not gundog training just training against sudden unexpected sights and loud noise as part of normal training. Here you can test your dog for "stability", go through a course and a gun will go off, a cloaked person will jump out and similar abnormal occurrences. Dog is assessed on how it copes, all a question of acclimatisation.
Years ago in the RM my Training Officer's dog went on all training with us, he found our military fireworks, "thunder crackers" fascinating and had to be leashed. He would chase them when thrown and after they went bang he would come running around waiting for the next one.
So I guess what I am saying is that your dog considers fireworks as something to be afraid of as he has not been acclimatised to them not that he is not trained but that there were holes in his training. My dog will not retrieve, never has, never trained her to as a pup as it didn't interest me, a hole in her training.
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Offer a young boy a pint and tell him to drink it, he will take it, try to drink it and, normally find it disgusting and be sick.
Offer the same young boy a cigarette, tell him to smoke it, he will take it and cough and cough.
He will grow up with a healthy respect for drink and tobacco.
Tell a young boy drink and cigarettes are harmful, but they are great, but he can't touch them until he's 18.
9 times out of ten when he hits 18 he'll go off on one...
Why not sell fireworks year-round, make them an acceptable part of our culture to celebrate with fireworks without that factor of doing 'something wrong and getting away with it'.
The forbidden fruit tastes sweeter and all that.
Greg
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The thing that i find frustrating is,i cannot go into a gun shop and buy ammunition or a hand grenade because i no longer hold a license.
yet i can go to a shop and buy fireworks,add these to a chemical fertilizer and you have destruction waiting to happen.
Ban the bloody things,we have them going off all times of day and night,they do not bother my dog to much,but as Dicky has said,
doesnt matter if you have a trained dog,every dog or cat/animal is different.
I know i was bitten by ex police alsation,who was scared shatless by fireworks and it isnt nice
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I mentioned this in another thread on the same subject, but the sale of fireworks is banned in most Australian states, without a licence, and has been for a number of years. Organised displays are still held, even small ones, but a licence must be obtained first. Needless to say there are still those who manage to circumvent the law, and occasionally illegal fireworks are let off, terrifying most of the local dogs. Strangely, our Corgi doesn't seem to mind too much.
You still occasionally read of some young person being seriously injured by fireworks, which is one of the reasons they were banned in the first place - that and stupid idiots blowing up people's letter boxes and the like.
Peter.
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Three kids have just been charged with manslaughter in the UK for putting a firework through a wonan's letter box. She died in the subsequent fire.
Given the number of superb organised displays available therse days, I can't understand why people would want to do their own displays which are rather pathetic by comparison.
Colin
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The trouble is Colin, the general public can get hold of industrial fireworks quite easy nowadays.
But i agree with you,a proper display makes the household one look pathetic.
But the cretins that like to blow things up that make people suffer will never go
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Why not sell fireworks year-round, make them an acceptable part of our culture to celebrate with fireworks without that factor of doing 'something wrong and getting away with it'
Greg
I consider this is the worst suggestion I have heard so far, depending where you live the situation can be horrendous, I live on a small Island with a population of over 40,000 which has been overdeveloped. As I said my dog is terrified of fireworks as are most pets. I wonder if certain people would be so eager to have fireworks if they lived through the blitz or served there country on active service as I have and seen your mates blown up by a mortar bombs, some of these fireworks pack as much explosive and are just as loud, all they do for me is bring back memories I am trying to forget.
My opinion, Ban them and leave it to public displays.
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To respond to the original post about dogs being afraid of fire works, I have two German shepherds.
Each year about a week before bonfire night I desensitise my dogs by putting a CD in my stereo in the house playing fireworks noises.
It starts off quiet and over a few days gets louder and louder.
What happens is that the dogs get used to the additional noise and come bonfire night the stress for them is much reduced.
It just takes a little thinking about and a dash of common sense.
To pick up on what DickyD said about government legislation, I agree with him whole heartedly.
Giving government more and more power over our lives is a very bad thing.
Hitler tried world domination through bombs and terror, we in todays society on the other hand are stupidly GIVING government a path to totalitarian power with our blessing!
Government is not some mythical magical animal that can wave a wand and right wrongs, they are just a body of INDIVIDUAL people.
One man as a sheep is fine and harmless but a whole group of sheep can be down right dangerous!
Where is it going to end?
What happened to common sense and taking responsibility for our own actions?
It has to start from the ground up with parents and their children.
I have been saying for years but, and excuse the swearing but stupid heads breed stupid heads and it will only get worse as time goes on. (Marin, please moderate if unsuitable with my apologise) Moderated, as requested, but why not do it yourself, it only needs a little self control and imagination?
We have to have driving licences and road tax to legislate us and enforce responsibility on us in charge of four wheeled tin missiles but when it comes to babies there is no instruction book what so ever.
Mothers give birth regardless of whether the new parents are capable and responsible to rear young impressionable children.
There is a young lass lives next to me (about 20 years old I think) with her lover/partner and together they have a 3 year old baby boy, when she especially talks to the baby - it's never less that at the top of her voice and the language is terrible. :(( {:-{ >:-o
How do you think that little boy is going to grow up with roll models like that? I shudder to think. {:-{
They have friends round every Friday night for drinks, they all get plastered and the same old stories are told.
One is where the lads all go out for a beer and a laugh, this means getting wasted and looking for some poor soul the beat up on the way home! :((
One of them picked on a young lad who happened to be very handy with his fists as he was the typical skinny sort of kid who gets picked upon.
So he decided to take matters into his own hands and take self defense lessons.
The bully ended up with all his front teeth knocked out for his trouble.
But the amazing and absolutely thick moron collected up all his teeth and took them home!
Now you would think he's be straight down to the dentist wouldn't you?
No! not this 'clever' lad!
Out with the super glue and stick them all back in place! {-) {-) {-) {-) %) %)
And he's proud of himself - like his crooked and glued in back to front teeth are some kind of battle scar!
I only pray that idiots like these are still in the minority but if nothing is not done . . . . . . . ,
Well I'm thinking of moving to the moon!
How about you?
I'm a lone parent with two teenage daughters, but they are decent kids whom I'm proud of.
But I put in the hard effort and time to teach them right from wrong and to have high moral standards and my parents did me the honour of doing the same.
Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?
Now I'm not advocating government control over child rearing - god forbid!
But somewhere somehow young parents have to have the mental tackle to be able to teach their kids high moral standards and it starts with their parents.
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{:-{ {:-{ %%
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Thank you Mr Moderator :embarrassed:
Duly chastised O0
Its a bit of a hot subject with me due to having to listen to what that poor lil kid next door to me has to put up with :((
Thin adjoining walls you see! >>:-(
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Firerworks...dogs...social degradation...end of the world- only on Mayhem would a sequence of events run so! {-) %%
Quite agree though- I work in social housing and the standards of self respect of the MAJORITY of unemployed benefit scroungers who expect everything for nothing and complain about everything that they have neither the means or the motivation to do anything about, is disgraceful/scary/enraging/demoralising, take your pick- thats pretty much my working week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank heavens for model boats.
Greg
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Hello Greg,
*sigh!* a sad state of affairs.
Your not far from me I notice, I'm in Bridlington :-))
Greg
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Not too far at all, can't hear the fireworks there though... :-))
From the coast myself, though i'm whitby born myself.
Funny, got a guy at work training with us and he's called Greg, from Scarboro, have we been posted in every coastal town on the East coast...? :o :o :o :o
Greg
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe about 1961...a youngster @ school loved science...so the next day after Guy Falk's night collected all of the "penny bungers" that did not explode & saved the wicks
His mates dad was a plumber ...... O0...so we found potassium permanganate + sulphur + lead powder & made the HUGEST smoke bombs imaginable {-) %%
My parents arrived home from their Sunday afternoon drive only to told >>:-( <*< No 2 son was in hospital <*<
In 1961...there were no aersol cans of plastic skin in Wollongong...........but they did drive a few tins down from Sydney
No names mentioned here..... <:( ...but I still have a few scars to prove it..........Derek
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Magnesium powder, toy cars and home made fuses, thats all i'm saying!!!!! %%
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This topic seems to have gone of the rails; the simple question was your views on fireworks not social degradation.
I have tried the Cd's Greg, the problem hear is you would have to start the process in late September. The only thing that helps my dog is sedation as Richard said you cannot keep a dog sedated for over 2 months.
In our local garden centre they have fireworks on special offer some measured 9” in diameter and 15” long, the instructions where to bury to a depth of 12” and retire to a distance of 35 metres, bomb disposal protective gear was not included, price £50.00 reduced from £70.00
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This year the nuisance seems to have been considerably reduced, probably due to the legislation. Its just a great pity that we have been reduced to having to legislate for stupidity. Perhaps if there had been enough police actually patrolling areas the problem enforcing existing existing legislation the problem would never have arisen in the first place. As it is, they give the appearance of being stashed away somewhere until a report of something having happened, rather than being out there and able to nip it in the bud.
Restriction of the size and time available/age requirements for fireworks has got to be sensible. This would mean that specialist firework shops would likely go out of business, but remembering the past few years of stupidity that they helped create, I can't find it within me to worry about them.
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We have fireworks on sale in Sweden but they only go on "general" sale nearer the bigger occasions, New Year, Easter, Valborg (Swedish thing) and a couple of others. "Bangers" are supposedly not allowed but they find there way from Denmark. There is an age limit in place (can't remember what it is). I will admit that we do not have the start of the season as early as Bonfire Night but it will be with us soon and we wil be hearing fireworks at night.
The situation in Ontario Canada is very similar, The Firecrackers (Bangers) are not allowed, a few still do show up, regular Fireworks generally go one sale a week or two before Victoria Day (May 24) and again before Canada Day (July 1). There is also an age limit 16 I think.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Erm . . . . . . .
airfix model jets and mini rockets anyone? {-)
We fired them off the sea wall into the sea!
Safety conscious us lads! :-)) O0 {-)
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If some of our local authorities did not waste money on rubbish which is only of any value to a few invited "artisans" but spent it on something that would benefit 1000's of local taxpayers like a really good "kick ar**" firework display once a year ie Nov 5th or new year, then that would eliminate the need for the public to buy them in the first place.
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It's in the nature of the young male to be adventurous and carefree.
In days gone by I would imagine that many of us "oldies" set off fireworks that sort of annoyed the then older generation.
BUT...there is a difference between a basically harmless scallywag and a malicious yob. In my (and many others) younger days we would all look forward to setting off a few "jumping jacks" or bangers near the feet of our elders. Good fun. And it was both meant and taken in fun. Of course there were always the thickos that would tie a banger to a cats tail or something similar. But the culprit(s) were quickly named. No "Community Service" then.....so off to a Borstal they went. Very,very few offended again.
Legislation will not help. But a decent upbringing and a respect for civilised law and order works. So does heavy punishment for those who sell "stuff" to these not so young "kids". We never really needed policemen to be around on Bonfire night..our parents did that job.....but I can still taste the black and burnt spuds that were raw in the middle. Harmless fun, now destroyed. BY.
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How true Bryan, how very true! The liberal minded sowed the 'rod sparing' seed and now society is reaping the whirlwind. Total disregard for the law, a lack of respect for others coupled with a total lack of responsibility has given us a generation who feel totally immune from the standards required of a civilised society. Only now, with an election looming, do we hear all the common sense and promises of building a more responsible generation dripping from the mouths of the politicians. Makes me sick to hear it because they broke our society in so many ways and now they pretend they have all the answers and will fix it. For this yob culture generation it's too little too late in my opinion as the basic instinct for decency has never been instilled in the early days.
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have to agree in many ways. We were driving down through Sussex this morning and on the verge of a picturesque country lane somebody had dumped a big pile of old carpets and other rubbish which was of course sodden with rain. They must have gone to some trouble as the spot they had chosen was several miles from any village. In this area there are perfectly good domestic waste disposal facilities which are well run and well used. I find it very difficult indeed to get into the minds of people who do this sort of thing. If they are caught then I think the penalties should be harsh as basically they are sticking two fingers up at the rest of society.
Colin
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I know this is off topic ,but there is always something which baffled me about roadside dumpers. Why oh why do they dump degradeable grass clippings on the verges... in polythene bags?? The ruddy stuff will de-compose and do some good if the bag were emptied, albeit dumped illegally, but in a polythene bag it can't even get back into the ecology.
I was also appalled by a tv programme which showed the filth and mess left behind by 'travellers' in lay-by's. They had set up camp as it were, remained there for a few weeks and left behind scrap, toxic waste, rubble and filth which can only be described as the most basic of human waste. The councils know they are there so why don't they monitor them on a daily basis and dis-allow the deposition of any waste or scrap with the threat of immediately removing them as soon as it appears. They appear immune from the normal rules which govern the other residents in the area and it sends out completely the wrong message to everyone as they feel singled out to abide by the rules. In my opinion, this kind of thing instills a 'couldn't care less' feeling in residents as they lose respect for the rules which appear to victimise them.
Anyway, sorry for drifting off topic but simply following on from the 'irresponsibility' drift of the conversation.
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Intimidation Sheerline.
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... If they are caught then I think the penalties should be harsh as basically they are sticking two fingers up at the rest of society.
The practical problem is that trying to arrest someone like that is difficult. They will be difficult to find, and will have mates who will cause more trouble.
So what happens is that harsh penalties are set in legislation, and then applied, not to the yobs, but to some inoffensive middle-class widow, who has left an old carpet over her lawn to kill the weeds, and who can be relied upon not to retaliate.
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I don't know if it has been said, but as soon as it was announced that councils would charge for rubbish disposal, fly tipping was inevitable.
Draconian punishments don't work. The problem is a lack of enforcement. With little if any risk of getting caught or any sanctions/fines/punishment, there is no deterrence. IMHO
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I don't think Councils are charging just yet, certainly not around here anyway. Larger items that don't fit into the regular collections can be taken down to the local tip (or amenity recycling centre!) and normally disposed of free of charge although they do take exception to people turning up with trailer loads of rubble. Trade waste is charged for and has been for a long time. Some people are just anti social.
Colin
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Colin,
Large items used to be picked up from of charge from your house by the council wagons.
Now you have to break large units up to fit into your car then take down to the dump (sorry Recycling Centre).
Adverts appear regularly through our door for disposal of these items extremely cheaply.
They cant use the Recycling Centres as they are classed as Trade Waste, (which they are), so I wonder where they go?
Bob
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We used to get 3 free collections of large household waste [beds, wardrobes etc] a year.
It now costs £25 per time.
Cheaper to fly tip ?
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I quite agree the service has deteriorated Bob although not to the extent that we are being explicitly charged at the moment. Our Council don't recycle cardboard so I take it down to the local facility every ten days or so as do a lot of other people. Usually I wait until I'm heading in that direction anyway but if i've got a lot of stuff to get rid off such as leaves etc. it's a 5 mile round trip and that costs both me and the planet!
But I do leave my TV on standby, otherwise it doesn't update the programme guide and at 0.17 watt it probably uses less than the central heating timner!
Richard, if it's domestic waste, and you are in a position to fly tip (have vehicle available) it must be just as easy to drop it off at the local amenity tip rather than dump it out in the countryside. At our local centre the nice man will even help you unload it from your vehiclle if you are struggling.
Colin
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Or council has a special collection for garden waste, leaves etc. once a fortnight.
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Thats what happens when you live in the affluent south,and have a Cons,run council,up here in the poorer North,we can get a 3 piece suite 1 x wardrobe 1 x chest of drawers and 1 other large item uplifted by the council for the princely sum of £8, ...and we still suffer from fly-tipping,mind you i have noticed a lot more number plates with St,Georges cross,on the,than usual, {-) {-) {-)..seriously though,no matter what councils do to try an alleviate the problems that are inherant in our society,,you,will always get those that don,t want to pay anything,and its not always those that are poor,that are the culprits,..a few years ago up here,.."World in Action",exposed some very rich and inflential people,on National TV,for ..stealing Electricity,..one guy, had a house worth in Excess of £750,000,thats a lot for up here,and he was tapped into the street lights,another who owned a large second/h car lot,he did the same,...the more they,ve got the less they want to pay to keep what they,ve got, {:-{
Wullie
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When i stayed in Germany, the practice there was that once a month you could put anything you didn't want out on the street in front of the house and a team of council wagons were dispatched to remove the lot in one day.... and it was free. It didn't matter what it was prvided it was household stuff. I saw wardrobes, cabinets, stereo systems.. allsorts of stuff and being in close proximity to the Alps, millions of pairs of unwanted skis. My freind discarded a huge wooden container which originally contained a large harp, it was incredibly heavily built but it was gone when we got home from work. There was a great deal of sifting going on too, some of the stuff wound up in other peoples homes as they would go around and find something they needed and this was all accepted practice. The germans are very big on re-cycling, it's a weekend ritual to take all the stuff to the re-cycling centre and it's all catered for. I NEVER saw any signs of fly tipping or for that matter, little or no litter.
So what is it with the Brits, this 'couldn't give a monkeys' attitude and lack of respect for each other and the environment they live in? It's a sort of 'in yer face' attitude' and appears to be an aggressive outlook on life, probably bourne from a lack of pride. There are times when I think some are only one step up from dogs which mark their own territory.
And we let them buy explosives over the counter once a year! %%
BTW Wullie, our security services intercepted a truckload of St Georges car stickers destined for Scotland, they were being smuggled across the border and destined for the Scottish Nation Party headquarters.!! {-) {-) {-)
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This FIREWORK topic has gone off on so many tangents I regret starting it.
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My apologies Patternmaker, my fault, one can easily digress:embarrassed:.
Ok chaps, carry on...I'm off to put some glassfibre in a mould, bin working all weekend and Mayhem is a welcome break with a cuppa, but I should stick to the thread!
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"This FIREWORK topic has gone off on so many tangents I regret starting it"
Why?,..Ok,you start a topic,it powers up steam,gets to its peak then,tails off into some related topics and some non related,..whats to regret about that,you got people speaking,thats what its all about,..its not about starting a topic,and hoping that it,ll stay on track, its about discussion,and thats what you,have brought here,3 pages of it,Instead of being full of regret, i,d be thinking you,ve done well,your topics 3 pages long,and still going,..how many of us on here can say we,ve started a topic thats still going after 3 pages, {:-{ O0
Wullie
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This FIREWORK topic has gone off on so many tangents I regret starting it.
Back on topic :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAO-nMBEBLA
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Sirry irriot :((
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Want to add my two pennyworth! Apart from them being dangerous etc, what about Pollution? Black Powder of which Fireworks are made when burnt releases all sorts of 'orrible gasses and chemicals,. We never used to have fireworks at New Year, but now it is Tradition! Here in Germany at New Year Fireworks are only sold to 18s or over and then from the 28th January until 31st. we are spared some early detonations, but not many. Last year it was calculated that 16,000 tons of Black Powder was let off in a time span of 11 hours, imagine the Pollution in that! Also people never clear up and the streets are littered for days with old rockets , roman candles etc. Public displays only please, times have changed! we used to fly Control Liners on Wanstead Flats, 200 yards from the Houses and roads on a Sunday Morning, try that now!
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My tuppence worth,if you,re located in Germany,then you,ll know all about them Sylvestre Flares,that can be fired using a blank firer,..great fun,..but just think of all that phosphorus,going up, {-)
Wullie
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Want to add my two pennyworth! Apart from them being dangerous etc, what about Pollution? Black Powder of which Fireworks are made when burnt releases all sorts of 'orrible gasses and chemicals,. We never used to have fireworks at New Year, but now it is Tradition! Here in Germany at New Year Fireworks are only sold to 18s or over and then from the 28th January until 31st. we are spared some early detonations, but not many. Last year it was calculated that 16,000 tons of Black Powder was let off in a time span of 11 hours, imagine the Pollution in that! Also people never clear up and the streets are littered for days with old rockets , roman candles etc. Public displays only please, times have changed! we used to fly Control Liners on Wanstead Flats, 200 yards from the Houses and roads on a Sunday Morning, try that now!
We have the same laws here in Finland.
It is possible to have fireworks on other days but the paperwork involved (special licenses required) and costs make it too much hassle for most people.
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Here we go again, first fireworks of the year already.
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Yipee {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Wullie
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Yipee {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Wullie
Spoken like a bloke who doesn't have to suffer them 24/7 for four months of the year. >>:-( >>:-(
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I'll just have my quick two bob's worth here...regarding fly tipping, the major point is PROOF. Good, solid evidence is needed to be able prosecute fly tippers. You (a council) have to able to prove without doubt that Mr P.I.Key was the man who dumped the rubbish. Finding letters or bills with a name on isn't enough, all that does is to prove that Mr. P.I Key lives at that address and received that bill/letter, it isn't proof that he dumped the stuff.
Our council, like many, know the hot spots for fly tipping and have placed hidden cameras in place to try and catch these people actually dumping the stuff, but nine times out of ten they don't catch the faces with enough clarity to be able to identify them. Or they get nicked or destroyed...we used to have night time patrols, but what with council expenditure cuts nowadays, they can't now afford to pay the overtime, so night patrols are being phased out.
We have a section of the old A259 which was largely abandoned when the bypass went in, this became a haven for fly tippers and sexual weirdos. After a few years of continual fly tipping and moans and groans from us spending so much time there clearing the tips, the road was sealed off at both ends. The council congratulated themselves on solving that problem...next week the tippers had found new spots and just continued fly tipping. We spent all our time running round looking for the new places...
There isn't really an answer to it, I fear...the tippers themselves don't give a monkey's about dumping the stuff, they've been paid to dump it and dump it they will, wherever it may be. It's not just small lots either, we've often arrived at a fly tip and it's blindingly obvious that what's before us came out of a big tipper truck, not out of the back of Joe Public's little car's boot.
I could rant on and on about fly tippers, they are a scourge upon society, but there's very little to be done about them. The stuff that they dump is often quite dangerous to the guys who have to clear it up...needles, broken glass, asbestos, broken baths and toilet seats..these are deadly to the poor old council worker who is sent to clear the mess up. I've cut my hands and fingers on glass and broken toilet seats so many times, one of the lads had a needle in his finger, went off to hospital, and then had to spend eight weeks in a panic whilst awaiting the outcome of blood tests. Not funny...at all.
Fly tippers are here to stay, I'm afraid...
Moan over...back to the original point of this post in the first place...fireworks.
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Spoken like a bloke who doesn't have to suffer them 24/7 for four months of the year. >>:-( >>:-(
Can I assume,you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning,Richard {-)as for 24/7 4 months of the year,..up here in Scotland,we are only allowed to use fireworks on 3 celebratory occasions,Guy Fawkes night,Christmas and New year,or by special permission from the Police for perhaps a birthday celebration,
Wullie
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Can I assume,you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning,Richard {-)as for 24/7 4 months of the year,..up here in Scotland,we are only allowed to use fireworks on 3 celebratory occasions,Guy Fawkes night,Christmas and New year,or by special permission from the Police for perhaps a birthday celebration,
Wullie
No Wullie I didn't get out the wrong side of the bed this morning [ I actually sleep in a chair ]. We just dread this time of the year down here, most of our pets spend 4 months on tranquillizers. >>:-( >>:-(
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Sorry Wullie but I have to agree with Dicky- if only for the problems it causes for pets - our collie Hamish
was a nervous wreck by the time we had 6 weeks of fireworks before th 5th Nov. and one of the lassies from
the stables was out hacking her pony when some @@@@ threw a banger at her and the pony - it bolted
but she managed to hang on. The horse was in a blind panic and could have run into anything - car, pram,
you name it. Organised displays only would suit me fine.
Geoff
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"I actually sleep in a chair"
I usually wake up in one,long after Avril has gone to bed,and i,ve stayed up, to watch TV,like the other,night, one minute it was 11.35pm the next it was 4am and i was stiff and cold,..no comments please {-)
We are very lucky where we stay,10 miles from nearest city,and 3 miles from nearest small town,fields to front and rear, forest to the left/right,..and no fireworks,
Wullie
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"I actually sleep in a chair"
I usually wake up in one,long after Avril has gone to bed,and i,ve stayed up, to watch TV,like the other,night, one minute it was 11.35pm the next it was 4am and i was stiff and cold,..no comments please {-)
We are very lucky where we stay,10 miles from nearest city,and 3 miles from nearest small town,fields to front and rear, forest to the left/right,..and no fireworks,
Wullie
Sounds ideal for your Bearded Collie Wullie