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[Brian36]

OK, so yesterday I bought myself a Joysway Focus II IOM-type R/C yacht.  £240, ready-to-run.
My previous radio experience is limited to turning one on for listening to The Archers.

I'm old, but not stupid.  (Well, not all that stupid).  I've done dinghy racing in the past (back when sails were cotton and dinghies were clinker-built wooden ones*).  So the principles of sailing are already in my head.  I've got the Focus II assembled, and if I press the right levers on the transmitter the rudder moves OK and the sheets wind in and out as I would expect them to do.

I haven't yet put my yacht on the water.  I have to sort out 3rd party liability insurance first, and anyway I have some family get-togethers to get through before I have some free time.

My first question is, what range does the average cheapo transmitter have?  How far away would it be safe for me to sail my Focus without its receiver saying goodbye to my transmitter?  I have visions of my lovely new toy sailing away into the distance, uncontrollable by me and lost forever!

The only info I can quote about my transmitter is that it's a Joysway J4C03, 4-channel, 2.4GHz FHSS.  The onboard receiver is labelled J5C01R.

Is this setup likely to be any good?  Yes, it's probably OK if I just take it along to the local reservoir and whizz the yacht around in a 15-yard radius, but:
(a) would a better transmitter/receiver setup have a wider range?  Is price commensurate with range?
(a) if there were other r/c sailors there where I sail, would there be a danger of signal conflict?
(b) if I were to encounter competitors who wanted to race with me, would it be worth my while to get a "better" transmitter/receiver setup?

I think I'm one of those retired blokes that they say have more money than sense, so I'd probably be willing to put a few quid towards a decent r/c setup.  But
(a) would it really help my cause if I did?
(b) would the Joysway Focus II ever be really competitive if it found itself in a serious IOM race?


* except the lovely moulded-ply International 14s, and some home-built sharpies ...

[chas]

Hi, your model uses modern 2.4 gig radio, so no chance of interference with other models. Re the range, why not check it on dry land? If you haven't a helper, clip some coloured card to the rudder so you can see it move, and start walking away. I'll bet you get a range greater than you can see what the model is doing.
 As for changing anything, try what you have first, get used to it, then decide. I've seen a lot of operaters problems blamed on poor equipment, and there are those of us who get hung up on our gear more than just enjoying a sailing session.
 I hope that helps a little, Chas.

[barriew]

I haven't yet put my yacht on the water.  I have to sort out 3rd party liability insurance first, and anyway I have some family get-togethers to get through before I have some free time.

The cheapest insurance you will find is either your local model boat club, or failing that the Model Yacht Association.


Barrie

[Netleyned]

Welcome Brian,
There is a West Wales Model Boat Club I think.
If you PM one of our members Ian-mcCaffrey
he will probably be able to help you with the
details. He is a Neyland lad,same as me, but he still lives there.
You won't get into any serious IOM racing as the yacht
you have won't measure up to the rules. Remember the measurements for
Int 14's  and the other one design classes.
Serious IOM's can cost up to ten times the cost of the Joysway.
Ihave a Joysway Dragon Force that does measure to the RG65 rules
but even with upgraded sails, they are not that competetive with the top RG65's


You shouldn't have any issues with range unless you intend to sail at Llysyfran!


Ned

[Captain Flack]

Can you join the MYA as an individual?  I thought you could only join through a Club.

[barriew]

Pretty sure you can join as individuals. When we had IOM members in our club they were members and definitely not though the club (I'm the Membership sec)


Barrie

[malcolmfrary]

Pretty sure you can join as individuals. When we had IOM members in our club they were members and definitely not though the club (I'm the Membership sec)


Barrie

OTOH - http://mya-uk.co.uk/about-the-mya/mya-membership-2/annual-affiliation/ - top 2 lines -

MYA membership is by affiliation through an MYA club.


There are no individual memberships and all members are required to join via an MYA affiliated club.

Clubs do provide insurance, individual sailors on public lakes generally don't bother.  Instances of a yacht leaping out of the water and savaging a passer-by are rare.  Our Laser/dragon racers made their arrangements of club affiliation outside the general working of the club, effectively being a sub-section of the club quite transparent to the rest of the club.

[Brian36]

Thanks everyone.  Lots of useful advice there.
I'll admit I had my doubts about the Focus II matching up to the IOM class rules.  For now, though, I'll be happy just learning how to sail something without holding the actual tiller and the mainsheet in my hands.  Maybe later I'll see if there are modifications I could make that would bring it within the rules.

[malcolmfrary]

After learning the basics of sailing, the simplest and cheapest mod is replacement with a real IOM if that level of performance  and compliance with the rules is wanted.  Among other things, there is a minimum hull weight and a maximum ballast weight.  I don't know these on a Focus, but it is a fair bet that if the launch weight was the fairly standard IOM weight, it would probably sit too deep to work properly.  Thats before fixing the rigging so that quick easy and accurate changes can be made between the 3 rigs allowed.

[Brian36]

Well that's encouraging, malcolmfrary.  Seems I'll need to hold back on the interactive r/c yachting until I feel I can afford a couple of thousand for a second-hand certificated IOM setup...

[Netleyned]

Check out whats being raced locally.
No good buying an IOM if they are
racing a different class.
Yacht raciers are always upgrading and
it is possible to buy a decent club racer
for sensible money.


Ned

[malcolmfrary]

The original basic idea of the IOM was that anybody with limited resources could build and be competitive.  It has taken time, so now to be competitive at top level does need a big cheque book, but learning doesn't.  As said above, there is a quite healthy market in pre-owned boats often with a full set of rigs.  Not cheap compared to the Focus, but a lot less than a brand new world beater that will probably be in the second division before a couple of seasons are over.
Also as said, first find out what is being raced in your area before committing.

[Brian36]

My main thinking, when talking about racing and wanting to get my Focus II into a state that might allow it to compete in races with other model yachts of a similar size, was to be interactive.  Sailing a little toy yacht up and down in a sort of personal vacuum may be OK for a while, even if there are other enthusiasts sailing tugs and submarines and model fishing boats on the same water at the same time.  But it's all individual.  Isolated.
Where's the 'community' element in all this?
Back when I used to crew for my dad at West Mersea, and we were members of the Dabchicks Sailing Club (OK, I'm talking late nineteen forties here) the club used to have races where all sorts of boats could compete, and there was a handicap system.  Basically the system was, if you did well in the previous race, you got handicapped!  Don't any model boat clubs operate a similar system?

I've looked at West Wales Model Boat's (sic).  Would love to feel welcome there, but I haven't yet seen any mention there of members who sail.  And MYA doesn't take individual members, so for the 3rd party insurance I'll just have to find a broker who'll do it for me, or find a random club where sailing goes on and join there just for the insurance.

Apologies - I realise my little rant is well off the subject of radio control.  But I'm picking up on things you've all said to me in this thread, and I don't know how else to sort out the problems I can see building up for me as I try to get going with this new hobby.

[Captain Flack]

As far as insurance goes you could look at Walker Midgely or the BMFA as an individual.  I'm sure they would cover you.  I have often thought that a handicap system for model yachts would be a good idea but I don't know of a system in use other than what you stated above.  I suppose the PY system would be to hard to administer considering the amount of different yachts that are sailed and the amount of tweaks that are done, and then trying to police it would be a nightmare.  I have enough trouble trying to remind my racers who has right of way and that pushing another boat out of the way is not allowed

[Brian36]

Thanks Captain.
Actually I've joined the BMPRS - the membership specifically includes third party cover.

I'm guessing that racing rules for model yachts would be similar to the rules for full-size yachts.  But anyway if I was racing I'd probably be so far behind the pack that questions of right-of-way would be academic!

[steamboat66]

as a multirotor flyer, i already have insurance. up to 2 foot guage! and tethered and un-tethered hydros etc. cost me about £15.
by the way, some TXs have a "range check" facility (spektrum do). it cuts power, then you walk X number of metres away to see if all is good. the distance will be in the instructions, if your radio has this.

[Captain Flack]

Could I ask who is your insurance with Steamboat66?, as mine is about £35.00 a year !!!!!  And does anyone know how much Walker Midgeley is charging now as it used to be so much a thousand for theft cover and I think that included public liability.

[Brian36]

But...
Back to the matter of r/c and newbies like me.
A yacht needs 2 channels.  One for the rudder, one for the sheets.
Possibly a third one, if I feel I want to risk my iPhone mounted on the deck somewhere for taking pictures.
So is it beneficial to me to spend money on a 6-channel Tx?     (See, I've picked up the lingo!  Tx means transmitter, right?)
Joysway yachts come with a Tx.  The Focus II one is 4 channel, but is it any good?  Options without the Tx seem to be £15 cheaper.  Is a £50 Tx better by £35?  Greater range?  Easier on the batteries?  Options that tell me if My batteries are getting low, or if I'm sailing my yacht too far away for my Tx to keep control?


Maybe you can tell, I have nightmares about losing my yacht because the r/c lets me down ...

[malcolmfrary]

I've yet to find anybody who has an operating problem with a later model Joysway.
The only downsides are the smooth lunch box type case (not much to grip, but it does have a handy hole to fit a wrist strap) and the (maybe) rather weak joystick levers.  The loss of trim sliders and their replacement by touch buttons is probably a matter of personal preference.