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[frogman3]

[quote author=Rob47 link=topic msg
Hi Chris. Have never knowingly used Chinese Esc. Mtroniks for me. Elektonise we’re ok but the size of the things
Solve the problem of Phoebe props doing similar to yours, down to duff battery. New battery fitted and the 2 Esc do all they are meant to
Did not want hassle as getting ready for Hereford engineering Halloween show end of month
Keep at it Chris you will sort it
Bib



HI Bob Mtroniks well i bought 2 of them 40 amp ones cost over a 100 quid from hobbies an fitted them in a they would only work for a few minutes an then the red an green lights kept fickin on an off an the esc kept cuttin out so i have just packed them away as they run one 540 motor ok but not these big motors so that why i have bought these chink ones but why them wires all melted i dont know seems to me to much power goin through them so they got hot an melted but i thought they should only have 6v reunning through them so goin to try some more new ones as i took the big esc to bits an repaired both of them an now they run a motor fine crazy anit 
chrisb

[Akira]

Hi Chris,I have been using these controls now for about 6 years.https://www.modellbau-regler.de/shop/index.php?cPath=1 I just received my latest batch of six of them. My fingers are crossed and I am knocking on wood as I type this, I have never had an issue with any of them. I use the 40 amp controls for my motors, which have been Johnson 970 12V 3300 rpm and Component Shop 800 5000 rpm motors. these are more expensive controllers, I feel that I am getting what I paid for. If Electrolize were still in business I would be going them, but these have served me well.I hope you get sorted.

[Rob47]

Chris strange that about Mtroniks. When you say large motors could you give me the dims for them please
Bob

[frogman3]

Hi Chris,I have been using these controls now for about 6 years.https://www.modellbau-regler.de/shop/index.php?cPath=1 I just received my latest batch of six of them. My fingers are crossed and I am knocking on wood as I type this, I have never had an issue with any of them. I use the 40 amp controls for my motors, which have been Johnson 970 12V 3300 rpm and Component Shop 800 5000 rpm motors. these are more expensive controllers, I feel that I am getting what I paid for. If Electrolize were still in business I would be going them, but these have served me well.I hope you get sorted.

HI Jonathan  now which ESC have you used sir as there are seveal on that page from what i understand of the page ? an what size ship have you got 1/96 or like me 1/72 ? as remember my tiger is quite big an very heavy 88lbs an she is a dead wheight in the water an to get her goin i need them big motors that i have fitted an they do the job great but is my problem them chink ESC bein cheap is this where im goin wrong as ive ordered another batch of chink ESC 2 X 480 AMP but if you sir can recommend a good powerful esc even if a tad more exspensive then i'll buy them an you say these controllers do you mean they are esc 's ? an i have used the johnsons motors an not very POWERFULL for tiger as she struggled to move on the pond  so anyway ive ordered them chink esc so i'll see how they go but i cant understand why them R/X WIRES melted ON  BOTH ESC 's  as they are only suppossed to have 6v goin through them arent they ? as ive never used this BECC system before as always had them eletronise esc in so hope you can help me sir
Chrisb

[frogman3]

Chris strange that about Mtroniks. When you say large motors could you give me the dims for them please
Bob

HI Bob these are the motors recommened to me by Martin an they seem to be nice an powerfull an move tiger great so i think these are the motors for tiger an they are 775 MOTORS PIC BELOW
https://ibb.co/ZKB9JNq
Chrisb

[Akira]

Hi Chris, First, I build in 1/48 scale and my last two builds were destroyers, at 7+ feet. My current is a light cruiser at 11'3". I have been using the As12/40RW versions. They use to have an Easy version, but have now gone with the full Lipo version. The difference protects Lipos if you are running them for power. it makes no difference if you are running gel-cell or car batteries as a power supply. These units have their own temperature protection so if the ESC finds too much current going thru it, it shuts down to 25% power. these also allow you to limit reverse power to 50%, ut now that we can do that with our transmitters, it is redundant.

[frogman3]

Hi Chris, First, I build in 1/48 scale and my last two builds were destroyers, at 7+ feet. My current is a light cruiser at 11'3". I have been using the As12/40RW versions. They use to have an Easy version, but have now gone with the full Lipo version. The difference protects Lipos if you are running them for power. it makes no difference if you are running gel-cell or car batteries as a power supply. These units have their own temperature protection so if the ESC finds too much current going thru it, it shuts down to 25% power. these also allow you to limit reverse power to 50%, ut now that we can do that with our transmitters, it is redundant.

HI Jonathan well i have looked at them esc what you say you are useing an at nr 54 euros each i cant affort them for time X 4 of them as be nr 200 pounds so i'll just try an turn my dual rates down to 80% on my T/X an hope these new ESC will do the job  an still gives me enough  power but have you any idea why my R.X wires burned out on both ESC THOUGH as there should be only 6 volts only goin through them ?
chrisb

[HMS Invisible]

...i cant understand why them R/X WIRES melted ON  BOTH ESC 's  as they are only suppossed to have 6v goin through them arent they ? as ive never used this BECC system before as always had them eletronise esc in so hope you can help me sir
Chrisb

There is only one way this happened. If asked, I can show why it is the only way to counter any alternative suggestions that you may be given.
It applies to any brand of speed controller where the two black wires are connected internally. You stated a liking for Electronize speed controllers in the past. I'll repost their instruction leaflet warning and follow with my very old explanatory diagram. It shows the arrowed path of the current that causes the mentioned "motor noise" and puts a rough 5% percentage figure so that you can quickly see if you are in the danger zone from excessive current in black (or brown) R/X WIRE.


The 5% comes from each cable's resistance based upon typical lengths of 22 awg, pvc insulated "R/X WIRE" and 16 awg for the main wiring.
 
 

[frogman3]

There is only one way this happened. If asked, I can show why it is the only way to counter any alternative suggestions that you may be given.
It applies to any brand of speed controller where the two black wires are connected internally. You stated a liking for Electronize speed controllers in the past. I'll repost their instruction leaflet warning and follow with my very old explanatory diagram. It shows the arrowed path of the current that causes the mentioned "motor noise" and puts a rough 5% percentage figure so that you can quickly see if you are in the danger zone from excessive current in black (or brown) R/X WIRE.


The 5% comes from each cable's resistance based upon typical lengths of 22 awg, pvc insulated "R/X WIRE" and 16 awg for the main wiring.

HI Sir could you make the diagam smaller so i ca read it all at once as by the time ive gone down to the slide bar ive forgotten what ive read an TBH i dont understand what you have put sorry sir an wil this happen again ?
chrisb
chris

[HMS Invisible]

This is what is written in the leaflet that came with your electronize controllers.
I've reduced the width to 640 pixel.

Their point is the thick and the thin black wires of the controller are connected internally.
If you wire another controller to the same propulsion battery you make a double connection between the propulsion battery's negative terminal and the negative connection on any servo plugs connected to the receiver.

Current doesn't take the least path of resistance but takes any path it can. It splits in inverse proportion to the resistance of each available path.
22 gauge servo wire is 0.053 ohms/metre resistance and heavier 16 awg wire is 0.013 ohm/metre which makes a backdoor resistive route that conducts 5% of the motor current that has already passed through the thick red, yellow and blue wire.
You should notice the insulation of the black R/X WIRE has melted first.

Four preventative measures I can think of:
*Separate propulsion batteries.
*Keep -ve propulsion battery wires as short as possible before joining together.
*Opto isolator on 2nd controller. (Please don't ask me to explain)
*Buy a £10 laser tacho & four 555 motors at 18v to 24v and use the smaller props if it suits.

[frogman3]

This is what is written in the leaflet that came with your electronize controllers.
I've reduced the width to 640 pixel.

Their point is the thick and the thin black wires of the controller are connected internally.
If you wire another controller to the same propulsion battery you make a double connection between the propulsion battery's negative terminal and the negative connection on any servo plugs connected to the receiver.

Current doesn't take the least path of resistance but takes any path it can. It splits in inverse proportion to the resistance of each available path.
22 gauge servo wire is 0.053 ohms/metre resistance and heavier 16 awg wire is 0.013 ohm/metre which makes a backdoor resistive route that conducts 5% of the motor current that has already passed through the thick red, yellow and blue wire.
You should notice the insulation of the black R/X WIRE has melted first.

Four preventative measures I can think of:
*Separate propulsion batteries.
*Keep -ve propulsion battery wires as short as possible before joining together.
*Opto isolator on 2nd controller. (Please don't ask me to explain)
*Buy a £10 laser tacho & four 555 motors at 18v to 24v and use the smaller props if it suits.

OK SIR many thanks for that info an i'll see how things go
cheer
Chrisb

[Rob47]

HI Bob these are the motors recommened to me by Martin an they seem to be nice an powerfull an move tiger great so i think these are the motors for tiger an they are 775 MOTORS PIC BELOW
https://ibb.co/ZKB9JNq
Chrisb

Hi Chris
Thanks for the motor info, wow they are quite small aren't they, was expecting something like the old MFA car heater style.  They are looking smaller than the ones in Phoebe, I don't use rates as I feel it is cutting your 100% power when you need it in an emergency, to many fast boat drivers seem to forget other craft are on the water.  To sail at scale speed, all I do is jut nudge the sticks in appropriate direction and off we go.  Works for me and I feel able to escape most emergencies.  Still each to their own.  Hope you resolve all these issue you are getting.


Bob

[frogman3]

Hi Chris
Thanks for the motor info, wow they are quite small aren't they, was expecting something like the old MFA car heater style.  They are looking smaller than the ones in Phoebe, I don't use rates as I feel it is cutting your 100% power when you need it in an emergency, to many fast boat drivers seem to forget other craft are on the water.  To sail at scale speed, all I do is jut nudge the sticks in appropriate direction and off we go.  Works for me and I feel able to escape most emergencies.  Still each to their own.  Hope you resolve all these issue you are getting.


Bob

HI Bob well there would not be room for big car heater motors in the hull an these motor are in my opinion quite big compared to the johnsons or the 540 motors an they seem to power tiger just great so motors im happy with an yes i do see what you mean about them dual rates turning them down so will see how she goes when i get the new esc an im thinkin of puttin in 4 ESC IN HER an havin one on each motor so not a great power build up an see how that goes as with the becc ive never had this before an im not really impressed with it an cheers Bob
chrisb

[Geoff]

My personal opinion is the BEC's can often be more trouble than they are worth so I always use a separate receiver battery pack and never suffer from the problems that a lot of people do when using BEC.


As you are using 12 volts its not an issue that will effect you but typically there needs to be a 1.5 volt differential as a minimum for for a BEC to work properly. Typically receivers work on 4.5 volts (they can take 6.5 volts but not more). So if you are using a 6volt battery the BEC will work for a while but as the battery is used the voltage can drop below 6 volts and the BEC will shut off immobilising the model. After a few mins drifting the model may come alive again  for a few seconds because the battery has recovered and the voltage has climbed back to 6v but as soon as you use it, it will drop and be immobilised.


A freshly charged 6v battery will probably read 6.5 volts anyway. A lot depends on the current consumption as how how much the battery voltage will drop so some people get away with it but others don't, its a little variable.


So for the weight of a small 6v battery pack in a large model which will have a negligible effect on trim it removes a lot of issues.


Cheers


Geoff

[frogman3]

My personal opinion is the BEC's can often be more trouble than they are worth so I always use a separate receiver battery pack and never suffer from the problems that a lot of people do when using BEC.


As you are using 12 volts its not an issue that will effect you but typically there needs to be a 1.5 volt differential as a minimum for for a BEC to work properly. Typically receivers work on 4.5 volts (they can take 6.5 volts but not more). So if you are using a 6volt battery the BEC will work for a while but as the battery is used the voltage can drop below 6 volts and the BEC will shut off immobilising the model. After a few mins drifting the model may come alive again  for a few seconds because the battery has recovered and the voltage has climbed back to 6v but as soon as you use it, it will drop and be immobilised.


A freshly charged 6v battery will probably read 6.5 volts anyway. A lot depends on the current consumption as how how much the battery voltage will drop so some people get away with it but others don't, its a little variable.


So for the weight of a small 6v battery pack in a large model which will have a negligible effect on trim it removes a lot of issues.


Cheers


Geoff

HI Geoff yes as im finding out this bloomin ole BECC is a PITA  as this is the first time ive used it an had more trouble than all my other big models put togeather as i used ELETRONISE ESC's IN THEM an NO PROBS but no need for me to use a small batt pack as i use a small eletric voltage reducer  unit to cut down the power from 12v to 6v for the R/X an this way i dont have to worry about them batts goin down as ive always used these units they are very good an the power all comes from just one battery but thank you for the info an im goin to try out 4 ESC 's so each one will power a motor an hope not to much power build up in the R/X wires just got to wait till they all come cheers
Geoff  for your reply
 
chrisb

[Rob47]

Chris
If I have read it right you have a reducer feeding power to the rx as well as the esc providing power, so would you not be putting more power into it than should be?
Frustrating you having there issues as not having a sperate battery pack is such a relief, one less thing to worry about, How we managed in the days when everything was brick sized 


Looking at earlier pics of the motor location I reckon there is bags of rom for these Still that's not what we are trying to solve MFA heater motors, they might sound big but they are compact.


Still that's beside the point, are you running port and starboard esc or forward set and rear set, out of curiosity.


Frustrating not being  able to get hands on as this modern stuff in my opinion is so easy almost plug and play, there cant be many suggestions left on what to do, sure you will get there right in the middle of the "its to bloody cold to go sailing"   period


Bob

[frogman3]

Chris
If I have read it right you have a reducer feeding power to the rx as well as the esc providing power, so would you not be putting more power into it than should be?
Frustrating you having there issues as not having a sperate battery pack is such a relief, one less thing to worry about, How we managed in the days when everything was brick sized 


Looking at earlier pics of the motor location I reckon there is bags of rom for these Still that's not what we are trying to solve MFA heater motors, they might sound big but they are compact.


Still that's beside the point, are you running port and starboard esc or forward set and rear set, out of curiosity.


Frustrating not being  able to get hands on as this modern stuff in my opinion is so easy almost plug and play, there cant be many suggestions left on what to do, sure you will get there right in the middle of the "its to bloody cold to go sailing"   period


Bob

HI Bob my freind yes i have a small 12v to 6v voltage reducer to power the R/X an i should as havnt treid it yet but accordin to my T/X INSTRUCTIONS turn down the power to the ESC'S by the dual rates to about 80% but i dont really want to but in case i have to as when i get all them ESC 's fitted in as again wont know till i get water load on them props an ive gone over this in my head no end of times till its nr sending me round the bend lol but its just try it an see
CHEERS for your reply my freind
Chrisb  ps yes i wont be sailin anymore till next yr so ive a long time to wait to see how thing work out as everything works great when ship on table its when she in water my trouble start as water load on props AN Bob why cant you get your hands on this modern stuff then ?

[Rob47]

Ah Chris grammar error should have been a comma after hands on    no problem getting the modern stuff
When you say works perfect on the bench then when in the water, isn’t that the most frustrating thing ?
One more big sail this year at Hereford engineering society for their Halloween bash.
Bob

[frogman3]

Ah Chris grammar error should have been a comma after hands on    no problem getting the modern stuff
When you say works perfect on the bench then when in the water, isn’t that the most frustrating thing ?
One more big sail this year at Hereford engineering society for their Halloween bash.
Bob

HI Bob yes it is frustrating when things all work fine on bench then  when on water probs start its near sending me mad lol but at least i can say i treid with tiger an so far i havnt given up an yes there isnt many more ways to do this as im running out of options but all 4 of my ESC's have come this morn so tomorrow i will wire them all in so each motor gets its own ESC an power down to about 80 % an see how that goes but firstly i will have to make another differnent heavy duty wirein harness so that will keep me busy for a few days an so far now ive got
 6 ESC 's  4 to fit in an 2 spare double ESC 's in case it does it again an yes its soupin up the dosh but im desperate to get this ship to sail an work ok an i wont sail anymore this yr but i an my m8 paul are puttin both my norfolk an tiger in lowerestoft lowmex model show at end of this month so thats something to look forward too an i hope you sir have a good last sail for the yr  yes Bob halloween is my jens birthday but cant say her age as you know women get finiky when they get asked that lol
ATB Bob
chrisb

[frogman3]

HI ALL NOW can anyone recommend a good english ESC as i think this is my trouble buyin ole cheap chinesnes ESC's an they keep clappin out as they cant handle the power goin through the circut please
chrisb

[frogman3]

HI GUYS
well ive managed to wire up all 4 ESC's an removein 3 red power wires one just one feeds the R/X an then wired them all togeather an to 4 motors on a bread board arrangement an then swichted on an opened the throttle on my T/X an the  ESC 's   an all 4 motors run great so today ive now got to try an wire them all in a 5 inch sqaure space an gonna be tricky as its a job tryin to bend this heavy duty wires so not lookin forward to that but i will be glad when its all in an some link pics of them firstly just the ESC'S NOW fitted with their connectors
https://ibb.co/Nrbh5SZ
an then here they are again but now with their 4 way fuse box fitted with just 20 amp fuses as now each ESC will work just one motor an fingers crossed this will work ok when on water load on props an im goin to power down if i can to 80% on my T/X daul rates an see if any better for this the 6th attempt
https://ibb.co/CQ9nCDC

chrisb

[T888]

Hope this all works ok this for you 

[Rob47]

Crikey Chris that looks complicated, hope it works though, still don't get the rates bit, would the stick you are using allow you to control the power from just tick over to full blast?  I assume you are still planning to use just the one stick again, going to be fun getting that lot running 


Thought I had caught you problems, testing Hero for Saturday and port motor was jerky then today it was dead, esc working, direct power to motor ok wiring ok, so what could it be, finally sourced to a screw not fully tightened in the line connector,  Sorted it and all running spot on.
At least at Hereford its a purpose built pool so if a boat dies on with waders and rescue it, looking forward to this although weather is not looking good.
Lets know how the latest set up goes.
useless info, did you know your Tiger is only 6" longer then my Bristol!! yours a Cruiser mine Destroyer, how things change

[frogman3]

Hope this all works ok this for you 

HI Dave so do i as been at fixin these just 2 esc's in for 2hrs now as only a 5 inch space to fit all 4 esc's but its that heavy duty wire that makin it difficult as it keeps bendin the esc's all over the show untill im sure that the wires terminals will reach where i want them to connect to fuse box an negative wires 
 hope your type 26 is goin easyier  an while i was doin that a bloomin great hornet came out of hibination as room was warm an put the wind up me as our cat lilleiy was chasein it around the room flamein thing looked as big as a lancaster bomber an im terrified of them so it was let battle commence an i got it out of the window without gettin stung but talk about the shakes got me an tryin to keep lilliey from goin for it was a battle in itself wow
chrisb
chrisb

[frogman3]

HI AGAIN GUYS well i have fitted them 4 ESC 'S in but im not happy but they all work ok but they are too tight so im goin to try an move the
 esc;s  nearest the fuse box an place them on the other side as this layout is not on an could get hot an catch fire but on the esc's they have only given me about 4 inches of positive wire so i think some exstenishions will be needed knew it would be tight but
https://ibb.co/w6ZHkCN
CHRISB