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[Stavros]

Ok what's going to happen now with all this pomp with CE markings on Radio sets.Does this mean that anyone without a CE marking on their present radio set will have to stop using them and buy new.

Stavros

[wombat]

No, if you had a radio set purchased before the CE regulations came into force you can still use. If you bought an unapproved unit in a private sale you can use it - remember though you could still run into problems if it doesn't conform to some basic standards, probably from a smack in the mouth from an enraged fellow modeller.

You shouldn't buy a radio set without a CE mark - both for you and for anyone else trying to use a model near you. The responsibility for ensuring the set meets the regulations is the manufacturer in the case of a UK manufactured product or the importer in the case of a foreign manufactured product. They are legally obliged to ensure that the stuff they sell meets the regulations. They should provice a copy of the certificate of conformity (signed by a duly authorised officer of the company) in the product documentation - if not they must provide one on demand.

Remember, that however onerous for the manufacturer, the affixing of a CE mark guarantees the product meets all the relevant european safety and performance legislation - in the case of a radio set it ensures the set will not interfere with other modellers, mobile phones, emergency radio systems etc etc. Also that it won't burn your goolies off with excessive RF energy, or catch fire because the batteries are not setup right. Additionally, it ensures immunity from incoming interference - for instance it won't shut down if chummy next door makes a call on his mobile

At a pinch, I could dig out the relevant standards for you.....

Wom

[malcolmfrary]

Of course, if theres a bunch of you, and all except one has gear CE stamped and the one doesnt but has problems, there could be a valid clue in there.

[barriew]

The problem is of course that our daft laws don't make it illegal to sell non-CE marked equipment - or equipment operating on other than the legal UK frequencies.

Barrie

[Captain Povey]

CE marking eh. Well as one old commedian once said 'There's a funny thing missus'. Well from my experience of CE marking products for conformity with various Directives including the Machinery Directive, The EMC Directive and the Low Voltage Directive it is illegal to sell any new product without a CE mark after the date of the legislation coming into force. What happens in the second hand market is another matter. Lets face it we do not want to attempt to control the 'robit and flogit at a boot sale' economy do we. In many cases the Directives from the EU are quite sensible and simple. The problem arises when our legislators transpose it into our regulations. This usually results in at least 100 pages of rules which are so complicated that, what was the DTI, then produces a book of only 75 pages to explain it all.  The upshot of all this is that small reputable manufacturers are over loaded with paper all needed to cover their posteriors pending a visit from the enforcers of the regulations. The latest amendment to the Machinery Directive does not even have the possibility of a transposition period. In other words if you have an old product on your shelf that complies one day the day after when the new legislation comes in it doesn't. It all proves to me that none of the EU or UK politicos have a clue about how manufacturing and selling works and will not rest until it is all in China where they can do what they like.  Well that is my rant for the day over. Thanks for the opportunity to get it off my chest I feel much better now and the headache is subsiding. Cheers Graham

[wingertaz]

We recently came across a problem with two model boats A.R.T.S (ALMOST READY TO SAIL) which were bought of Ebay and sent direct to the customer from China. Both were on 27megs one on yellow one on green. They both worked perfectly independently. The trouble arose when both were switched on together which caused interference in both boats.
 
After a lot of testing we found the fault to be with the transmitters in so much as they were giving out a lot SPLATTER which caused interference with frequencies either side of the frequency they were transmitting on. IE; TX on yellow would caused interference to any one who would be on orange or green. We changed the frequency on model which was on green to brown and their problem was solved. We explained to them when they came to collect the boats what we had found and that if they used them on a lake where other models were being used they would create problems for other users who was on adjacent frequencies.
 
I felt that my comments fell on deaf ears. All they were interested in was how little they had paid for their models.

No CE markings !!!!

Regards Gary

[MikeK]

I bought a new 40 Mhz Futaba 4Ex on fleebay recently, not knowing a thing about this CE ruling. It does not have the required mark and arrived with some strange FM crystals outside the UK range. After a bit of research on tinternet it transpired that this set was for the Japanese market. I accept that it is illegal to use it with those crystals and have since bought some uk ones, but surely the standard of quality by Futaba will be the same throughout its products ? Are we talking about dodgy manufacturers here - or is this yet more EEC bureaucracy ??

MikeK

[wingertaz]

More EEC bureaucracy I'm afraid. It has come to light that some radio sets coming in to this country ( by the back door so to speak) are giving out more power than is allowed and could create problems for other users.  >:( CE marking should prevent this.

Gary

[malcolmfrary]

If you look on the US sites, there is a constant stream of queries about interference.  Their legal gear is supposed to have an FCC stamp, but you cant help wondering because there seems to be a lot of fleabay activity there. 

[MikeK]

From a selfish point of view, my Futaba should be ok then as I cannot see that company selling sets that are pushing out too much power to their own people. Taking that to its next step would mean that Japanese modellers cannot use their gear as everybody interferes with everybody !  I'm sure if I were to dig around on tinternet I would find if the output limits are different for our far eastern brethren, but, hey, life's too short  ::) ::)

MikeK

[wingertaz]

It all depends if the radio was intended for use in this country ?  :-\ It's a bit like buying a right hand drive car ( because it was cheaper)  intended to be driven in Europe on the right hand side of the road where the headlights dip to the right. Then using on British roads (with out bringing it up to British standards ) where other motorists are dazzled and annoyed. >:(

[Circlip]

    OK Gary, you are at the crossroads, so what are YOU going to do about it as a trader? We are led to believe that when
     little jimmy gets his cut price 'model' it's going to lead him into our hobby to want to explore it further? I wonder how
     many do ? but in the mean time, until the novelty wears off he successfully splatters the 'Band'. Do you tell him where
     to go or in good faith sort his problem as you have, and perpetuate the trouble. No I am not criticizing you for the
     simple reason that you and your family have to eat and pay the bills like the rest of us, and again congratulate people
     like yourself that have the guts to do what you're doing for the rest of us in todays economic climate, and no I don't
     know the answer to the CE problem either, BUT I do know that at the end of the day, Joe public WILL go for the
     CHEAPEST deal he can get.   'HEY LAD'S HAVE YOU SEEN THIS ON FLEEBAY?'

[dougal99]

In my experience these cheap RTR models with thin wire aerials on the TX which seem to broadcast over 27 or 40 are swamped by any signal from a 'normal' TX. At our local pond it is quite common to see Dad and little Jimmy come down, launch the boat without a word to anybody, get 12-20 feet out and stop dead. If the 'normal' TXs in the same band are switched off the RTR comes back to life. All explanations to Dad usually fall on deaf ears.

I have not experienced any interference from these models (fingers crossed).

Doug

[wingertaz]

As a responsable trader the only thing I can do is try and educate paternal modellers which way to go rather than succumb to selling none CE products purely to get their custom.
As a modeller I can only advise my fellow modellers of the problems what could and have arisen when certain equipment is being used.

Gary.

[MikeK]

Now I know about this CE mark I will act responsibly in the future and check the back of any gear I buy, for your advice on this Gary, I thank you. However having spent a fair amount on this fleabay bargain I am faced with the dilemma of binning it or carry on using it, ..............now, what shall I do  ::) ::) ::)

MikeK

[wingertaz]

Hi,
     What I would do is if you are using it in the vicinity of others is do a frequency check. By checking that no interference is encountered by any one operating on a frequency either side of the frequency your on. Like wise make sure you don't get any interference. Also a range check should be carried out on any new installation whether it is CE marked or not. 

Regards Gary

[HS93 (RIP)]

 MikeK

 Was the radio gear on  41 mhz ? if so I would try to keep to freq at the top of our 40 mhz . . radio gear is optimized to the centre of the  the band it is sold for . that is why you see receivers and tx for 41 mhz and sets for 40 mhz. you may find if you go to far away you may have problems.

Peter

[wingertaz]

Hi,
   As Peter says go for a high ch on 40MHz. 40.985 is the highest ch you can use legally for surface model use in the UK.

Gary

[MikeK]

Thanks for the advice lads. I have 40.985 in the set just now and I'll keep a close watch for interference. As a matter of interest the set came with 40.770 Mhz. Is there a way of finding out who this frequency is allocated to (if any) in the UK ?

MikeK

[MikeK]

Decided not to be lazy and go look myself and found the bible - http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra365.htm#table
According to that the surface model allocation is from 40.660 to 41 MHz so that 40.770 MHz should be ok -  yes ?? 

MikeK

[wombat]

Probably not, I'm afraid - it is not just the matter of the overall part of the spectrum you use, the other issue is the channel allocation.

The channels are allocated to occupy 10KHz slots - in the EU these channels are centred on 5KHz - so for example, for a 40.685 crystal, the channel runs from 40.680MHz to 40.690MHz - the next in the sequence is 40.695 running from 40.690MHz to 40.700MHz.

Your set has a crystal of 40.770Mhz, so assuming a 10KHz channel width, it will be running from 40.765MHz to 40.775MHz - in ither words slap ban in the gap between two adjecant channels, so there is the danger you will interfere with them and they with you. YOu should be able to get round this by changing the crystals only. The bigger risk is if the set you have uses a wider channel width - it could mean that despite having the correct crystal you could end up splattering into adjecent channels - maybe not but it is a very real risk.

Wom

Addendum - I have just looked on the international section of the UKRCC - Japan uses a channel width of 20KHz not 10KHz - so there is the possibility of a Japanese radio set splattering across four European channels.

[HS93 (RIP)]

That's a bit like when we used 27 mhz and and had someone with an old ACOM's set next to you, we used a spectum analyser in my previous hobby, you knew which sets would be as wide as a barn door, and who had reversed there xtals. the most consistent radio's where JR.

Peter

[MikeK]

Thanks for the info Wombat - this is starting to look like a cautionary tale for anyone else trolling through E-Bay with a greedy gleam in their eyes  .
Truth be known - I have had a bit of bother with interference on my yacht - sail winch 'chattering' when amongst other yachts, but I put this down to me wrapping the Rx aerial around the steel shroud wire which is a no-no. I have since moved it to a model car whip on the aft end deck, but haven't had it out yet to find out any difference.
I will consign the 770 MHz crystals to the bin like a good boy  :angel: :angel:

MikeK