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[od boating]

hi all
 i am quite new to all this powerboating lark. i just wanted to know if there is a cheap way into racing, there are a few racing ic boats at my local lake all that seem to cost £1000s.to be competitive, why is it nobody runs a cheap economy class. not a lot of people have £700 to spend, i know the car boys run a restricted class why not boats ? i know of several others who would also race if you could build a boat for under £200
                  regards steve

[w3bby]

Read this thread     around £150 for a petrol boat that can be raced, keep it right side up and race well, who knows 
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2820.100
Basically, the 2 terms low cost and racing do not go together unfortunately. It depends what type of racing you want to do, FSR-V is expensive, hulls, engines, pipes etc if you wish to be competetive.
Cheapest way in for a beginner is to buy second hand, a known good hull and a reasonable motor should get you in there. I'm not sure that £200 would get you there especially if you are starting from absolute scratch, no starter, battery etc.
Car boys restricted class is still "lots of dosh" to a lot of people if you are talking 1/5.

[martno1fan]

hi all
 i am quite new to all this powerboating lark. i just wanted to know if there is a cheap way into racing, there are a few racing ic boats at my local lake all that seem to cost £1000s.to be competitive, why is it nobody runs a cheap economy class. not a lot of people have £700 to spend, i know the car boys run a restricted class why not boats ? i know of several others who would also race if you could build a boat for under £200
                  regards steve

Steve my boat is legal for offshore racing but im not sure about circuite racing ,where are you from ?.i agree an economy class would be a great idea though and if your ever near blackpool ill meet you for a race lol.get her built!!.these engines are still on ebay at15 quid start still a bargain at 25 which is what theyre going for.also the walb carbs fit i got a 167 used on car zen engines on ebay for a fiver  and it fits right on.

]]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Petrol-strimmer-engine_W0QQitemZ160101257564QQcategoryZ71277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Walbro-fg-zenoah-cy-23cc-carb-marder-etc_W0QQitemZ270106057245QQcategoryZ34063QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://

[BobF]

Hi od boating,

If you live down south, how about Z class

http://www.omra-uk.org/index2.htm

Bob

[martno1fan]

hi mate whats z class then? .

[omra85]

Hi Steve
The OMRA 'Z' class was brought in for just the reason you describe.  It give one of the cheapest ways into competition racing (apart from building your own boat out of wood).
The 'Standard' Z class is for .12cu in engines without gearbox and with submerged drive.  Engines (ASP, MVVS, & others) are available for about £50 -£60 including pipe.  The total for getting one on the water with 2 channel radio should leave change from £200.
Races take place at Eastbourne (south), Telford (midlands), Southsea (south), Kingsbury (midlands) Weymouth (south) Brentwood (outer London) Bristol (west) Willen (Milton Keynes) and Maidstone (Kent) so there are plenty to choose from.
Have a look at
http://www.boatracers.freeserve.co.uk/
and go to the Z Class site - all the details and links are there.
Danny

[Tester]

Looks like a nice starter boat on the OMRA site http://www.omra-uk.org/index2.htm for £125, have a look under the for sale section, may be of  interest

HTH

Richard

[martno1fan]

looks like a good way for some to get started if they want to race,but i think ill stick to petrol engines from now on, its simpler and cheaper to run!!

[retro boats]

hi
 i don't think there is a cheap way to race. last year i watched the z class boys at portsmouth. some of the fasterstd z racers were using old novarossi engines & you could see a vast difference i performance.
 that said it still is the cheapest racing class going!
 i wish the fsrv boys would take a look at cheaper boat
direct drive 7.5cc any hull with engine rules similar to the standard Zs to stop newer cmbs
 make them run on Castor straight (like the old days) for cheap fuel. even go back to running clockwise.
  the boats should be fast enough not to fall asleep whilst runing
          any other ideas
                 steve

[martno1fan]

I disagree there is a cheap way to race boats if you build them like mine and make em all stock apart from a bigger carb,keep the can muffler then all boats are the same.Like Ian says £150 for a hull engine all the hardware and radio is pretty good and the boat goes pretty well at arround 35 mph.So yes it is possible and the good thing about these engines is they are cheap and easy to use and maintain.I think maybe they should start a class for weedy engines that would be a great way for guys to start out the good thing is these boats would be ideal for offshore too and a more powerfull engine can be added when funds allow.I could race this one in offshore now but im sure it wouldnt be competetive against zenoahs and the like.Racing isnt my thing to be honest but im just saying it is possible on a budget if your prepared to have a go at building your own hull from scratch .heres a quick vid of my boats second run and shes pretty decent so far and im sure with a few tweaks here and there she will get better .
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEFk5rwwMPc

[glennb2006]

hi
 i don't think there is a cheap way to race. last year i watched the z class boys at portsmouth. some of the fasterstd z racers were using old novarossi engines & you could see a vast difference i performance.
 that said it still is the cheapest racing class going!
 i wish the fsrv boys would take a look at cheaper boat
direct drive 7.5cc any hull with engine rules similar to the standard Zs to stop newer cmbs
 make them run on Castor straight (like the old days) for cheap fuel. even go back to running clockwise.
  the boats should be fast enough not to fall asleep whilst runing
          any other ideas
                 steve

Without cost or technical limitations the boats are allowed to develop and builders will try to make changes to improve speeds around the course, which is one of the purposes of racing, as well as having fun.
Looking at it so far it seems that OMRA have the cheapest options for racing, and with the constant variable of open water and waves the driver has a very large contribution to the race times and speeds achieved.

I'm going to give it a go this year, just a shame (For me) that the majority of races are on the South coast.

Glenn

[martno1fan]

I think the reason for that is the weather Glenn i wouldnt like putting my boat in the sea here off blackpool its not very often we get calm conditions here.Not to mention its a long drop from nortn pier lol.You have a good point about omra been a good way of running a cheap boat like mine as its not going to be that many boats running flat out anyway so a boat like mine could be competetive with a decent driver.

[OneBladeMissing]

The escalation in costs since I last raced (early eighties) is incredible. I've thought for a while that "Sport" classes using front-induction, side-exhaust engines with polyester-glass hulls and reasonably priced pipes and tanks might be viable. I can imagine an interested onlooker at a race meeting might wish to find out more about having a go at racing, but then being put off when they find out how much FSR-V boats cost. Any class of glow-plug engined boats can easily run up a £1,000+ price tag. How many newcomers are going to be tempted into the sport? A couple of seasons ago I noticed that some race meetings were cancelled due to lack of entries. When I raced I had to get my race entries in during january to ensure I got in at some meetings.

[glennb2006]

Correct, to be competitive you can spend easily into the thousands to get a boat into the water.

OMRA have attempted to produce cost controlled racing (Z class), which seems to be a good choice.

Maybe the MPBA would like to look at an entry level cost limited FSRV class. Not sure if there would be interest from MPBA., but it may well as you say bring in new blood and some old returning blood.

Ultimately though, and I have seen it mentioned on other areas of this forum, what is required is to get kids interested in the hobby. They will be the future of it.



Glenn

[ids987]

I think I read in one of the OMRA newsletters that the £80 price cap has been removed from the "unmodified" Z class - which (if I'm right) is a shame in my opinion - for exactly the reason that Steve / Retro mentioned.
Having said that, for newcomers and any other interested parties, I reckon a bigger class (eg 7.5cc / .45 cu in, or 11cc / .67 cu in) with a price cap on the engine would be interesting - whether for OMRA type racing, or another. I think it would be easier for a newcomer to get some sort of satisfying performance from a modestly priced engine of this size than with a very small engine.
I seem to remember seeing on one club's website, that they run a race series for a particular multi-hull, with a specific engine (I think it was either a SC, or ASP .46 - a sort of I/C equivalent of Club 500 racing.......

Ian

[martno1fan]

i still say stick to a strimmer engine set up its way cheaper ,the engines are cheaper and the fuel is cheaper and all the hardware is the same as for a .40 .60 size boat.i got my engine for £15 brand new and i know there are some the same as mine on ebay for £25 now.my boat runs at 35 mph and its only had 3 outings so still more to come im sure, plus im using a stock can muffler so a pipe will make it go much better.all ive done is added a walbro 167 carb and i have a clutch too so its easy stuff  .
http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Petrol-Strimmer-engine-aeroplane-boat-new_W0QQitemZ130099144531QQihZ003QQcategoryZ139984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[omra85]

"Club 40", "Club 21" and no doubt many other 'limited cost' classes have been tried in the past, definitely in 'multi' and maybe in OMRA as well.  
The problem is that, although initially the class is usually set up to give a low cost 'way in' to competitive racing, it NEVER stays that way.  Unfortunately, this has now happened with OMRA Z class.  What started off as a fairly specific set of rules has now been changed to allow costs that can be actually more expensive than some of the bigger classes.
It always happens - existing racers "take over" the class for whatever reason, less cost, less competitors, EASIER WINS ::) then after a little while the rules get "altered" to suit the needs of these 'alternative' competitors.
The same thing is happening in the USA with ready to run kits.  Instead of leaving them exactly as they are, the racers are 'fiddling' with things to get more speed - at greater cost!
I have had an argument in the past with a major UK supplier who said that low cost racing was a waste of time because people always wanted a faster boat, so why bother with a cheap class where, if competitors 'move up' to the existing classes they are left with stuff they can't use!!!!!!  I believe that this may well be a contributing factor in the fact that multi (FSR-V) has had the same 'full blown' classes for years (they also appear to have done away with the 'D' class which was 7.6 to 10cc).  All at huge initial expense.
I would love to see a cheap class with IRON CLAD rules gauranteed to remain for the life of the class with NO alterations.  If people wanted to 'move up' to faster, more expensive boats, simply sell-on their starter boat to another new starter.  This would increase numbers which I also believe is essential to keep the hobby going.
Danny

[glennb2006]

OK then, I will put my hat in the ring and sound out MPBA to see what they say. I will start a new thread here to update when I get a reply.

Glenn

[martno1fan]

Why not start your own why bother with either governing body if they keep changing the rules ,start your own thats what id do.I cant race because i cant travel the country to do so but if there was a local club with members to race id do it.Theres allways cheaper ways to do things and there are places to buy hardware and radio gear pretty cheap if your willing to shop arround.THEY WANT YOU TO PAY MORE MONEY!! dont let em force you to do what they want thats what i say.

[glennb2006]

At least with a "governing body" there is some credibility behind it, also insurance, and it can be seen as a feeder class into the hobby and onwards. Plus the events can be run on the back of existing events, rather than trying to arrange a championship or even odd events stand alone.

I have made the initial enquiry and await response from MPBA.

As I said, I will post a seperate thread to update.

Then take it from there.

Glenn

[martno1fan]

that was my point though glenn they dont appear to be interested in the little man(typical)they pander to the rich and influential same as in most real motorsports.my point was start up your own class with its own body,i know it would be time consuming etc etc but if enough people were interested it could be done.im sure some local model shops would be interested in sponsoring events etc especially as most would probably be using boats and equipment bought from them.but i wish you luck and lets hope they listen as its important they encourage newcomers into the sport otherwaise it will stay a sport for the select few which is a pitty.i beleive the future of any sport lies with the kids and not many parents will pay the prices required to kit them out with the prices so high.i think a sports class would be a great idea both one for nitro and petrol.i can run for 1/2 an hr or more on a tank of 2 stroke compaired to 5 mins with a nitro boat.

[DaveMarles]

'Entry' level racing has been tried many times but apart from the Z class in OMRA (which has now increased in cost and is dominated by the 'top' OMRA drivers) those attempts have been dismal failures. We have had several attempts at entry level in FSRV but the reality is that people who go racing generally want the best. The last attempt we had was with a .12 kit class. I think it attracted 2 entries both of whom were existing racers.  I'm sure some are put off by the cost of boat racing, but in FSRV its more the complexity and time necessary to build them that is the problem and even so the entries in FSRV have remained static for quite a few years although entries are now beginning to climb. The level of entries from years ago as mentioned by someone here will never be achieved for many reasons, the main one being that now there are 3 types of IC racing available, Circuit, OMRA and FSRV whereas there only used to be one class - FSRV ( Multi).  
    Entry level racing is difficult to achieve for many reasons but I think its human nature that people see something and want to go with what they see. For example, I used to have a shop selling RC aircraft.  Almost everyone who came in wishing to seriously start model flying, wanted a 6 channel all singing all dancing Spitfire or similar kind of aircraft to start with. We had to practically put their arm up their back and torture them to get them to buy what they actually needed which was a .40 size trainer.  A current example of this is that I sell an unjoined  .90 size FSRV boat made from polyester with nice shiny gelcoat finish for £80.00 and in comparison I sell a joined  .90 size FSRV boat made from vacuum moulded epoxy carbon kevlar for £365.00.  I sold one of the polyester boats in the last  12 months but last year we couldnt make the epoxy boats fast enough.
   In conclusion, although its a nice idea, I would guess that the number of people willing to build a wooden racing boat with strimmer engine etc and actually go racing would be less than the number of people willing to see/hear a one fingered violin player playing at the Royal Albert Hall.

 In my experience the way to get more people racing is to get them to the racing lake or practice lake and then if they are interested don't put them off by telling them
A. How difficult it is.
B. How expensive it can be.
C. How you need to be a World class engineer with full workshop facilities.etc etc.

  I'm sure we've all heard this.

Dave
    

[martno1fan]

Dave i think you just told them lol  hehe,the way to get them interested is to target the kids look at all the nitro kits available on ebay someone is buying them i see no reason why there couldnt be a class made just for them!!.It just needs a few people to get together to make it happen thats the problem,any volunteers  .I think the problem is the powers that be in omra fsrv or whatever just dont give a **** about kids or the people on a budget!!.

[glennb2006]

"i can run for 1/2 an hr or more on a tank of 2 stroke compaired to 5 mins with a nitro boat."
[/quote]

Hi Martin,

Have you thought about a larger fuel tank for your nitro boat?  :-\

Glenn

[martno1fan]

lol its a 20 oz tank couldnt get any bigger  its a .61 engine and it drinks for fun i hate the dam thing >:(.